Conservative Owns the Libs by Paying $4,000 a Month for His Ford F-350

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I'm in a slightly more....redneck(?) area and the benefit to open bed trucks tends to be things more akin to landscaping, logging, wood and stone moving, and for those with hobbies; moving smaller vehicles (if they don't own a trailer attachment).

Basically the ability to throw dirty things into a hauling vehicle with good suspension on non-paved areas with easy cleaning capabilities.

It comes down to what you're doing is and what is required for a vehicle. HVAC, House work, some masonry or such you could use an enclosed vehicle for sure.

To your point, handymen and tradesmen will usually use a van or similar. And way more people own a truck than actually utilize it for the proper use cases. But there are valid reasons for open bed trucks too
- May I introduce you to... a VW Transporter with flatbed. Also available with double cab (don't let the price confuse you it's for a flatbed floor).
  
  You largely see them used by landscapers. Almost wanted to say hauling compact excavators but that's generally done with a trailer, flatbeds tend to be quite a bit too high for comfort you'd need a sturdy crane which you of course also might need but now you're at a point where you're trying quite hard to justify getting an unimog.
  
  Forestry tends to be done with specialised harvesters and then trucks, hunters tend to have bog-standard station wagons. Heavy construction materials like pallets of bricks will generally be delivered by whoever sells them, on trucks with cranes.
  
  Probably not allowed in the US due to some shitty law? I'm guessing... I'm going to check it out. Maybe get one from Craigslist one day in the long future.
  
  Looks great! 💯
  
  You have low floor flatbed like this to transport everything needed for landscaping including an excavator. Trucks are for the bling bling.
This is the way
I'd love a cargo van like that, but I still need something to tow heavy trailers long distance, unfortunately.
- 2.2litre turbo diesel doesn't have enough pulling power for you?
  
  If you've got one that can haul 6 tons over the Rockies, let me know.
  
  The secret to pulling trailers, for the uninitiated American, is simple: Don't have an automatic transmission. It's a torque thing, most automatic transmissions aren't designed to haul because enabling them to do that requires actively cooling the torque converter which is yet more moving parts, cost, and weight, so only SUVs and upwards ever have that capability.
  
  Meanwhile, Europeans haul things all the time with cars. Regulations and different approaches to tongue weight are yet another factor.
  
  Many cities and towns across the Rockies in North America have elevations above 1800 meters. That's the starting point. By comparison, "high" cities in Europe, like Bern (500m) and Innsbruck (574m) don't Even come close. It's not a factor of one thing like having a manual transmission, but a multitude of factors like road condition, grade, elevation, distance driven, humidity, etc. It's a completely different environment. The 2.2 turbo diesel may indeed not have enough power to get over any of the many 4000+ meter passes if it can't get enough air or cool itself while towing.
  
  Many cities and towns across the Rockies in North America have elevations above 1800 meters.
  
  Elevation does not say anything about incline. Total elevation btw also does also not say anything about elevation starting from the base of the mountain. Ask a Mountaineer who scaled the Kilimanjaro, the summit is 4.9km above its plateau base.
  
  Also, have a look at other places in the US: Flat like a pancake. Yet you don't see cars hauling stuff there while people haul things with cars in the Alps. How come?
  
  The 2.2 turbo diesel may indeed not have enough power to get over any of the many 4000+ meter passes if it can’t get enough air or cool itself while towing.
  
  Motor torque doesn't matter add an extra gear and anything can pull anything (slowly). Any motor is also plenty powerful enough to cool itself. Do you even know what a torque converter is. What it does. Why it's in an automatic, but not a manual.
  
  Altitude has a significant affect on engine performance [1], regardless of your opinion on transmissions. Conventional wisdom dictates declining carry capacity per altitude gain. "Note: For high altitude operation, reduce the gross combined weight by 2% per 1000 ft. (305 m) starting at the 1000 ft. (305 m) elevation point." [2] As does incline, which if you read my comment carefully you will notice I mentioned.
  
  I'm not sure you're an authority on what folks in the American Midwest are or are not towing with cars, but I will note that automobiles in North America have one rating, nationally. There's no regional tow rating for Rockies vs Flats, or cold weather performance in Montreal vs Florida.
  
  As with most all things in life, the answer lies in a complex host of variables, not just one singular difference. Just trying to be informative, there's no need to be defensive.
  
  [1] https://www.aamcocolorado.com/high-altitude-car-maintenance/ [2] https://www.cars.com/articles/should-your-pickup-tow-less-at-altitude-454166/
  
  Altitude has a significant affect on engine performance [1], regardless of your opinion on transmissions. Conventional wisdom dictates declining carry capacity per altitude gain. "Note: For high altitude operation, reduce the gross combined weight by 2% per 1000 ft. (305 m) starting at the 1000 ft. (305 m) elevation point." [2] As does incline, which if you read my comment carefully you will notice I mentioned.
  
  I'm not sure you're an authority on what folks in the American Midwest are or are not towing with cars, but I will note that automobiles in North America have one rating, nationally. There's no regional tow rating for Rockies vs Flats, or cold weather performance in Montreal vs Florida.
  
  As with most all things in life, the answer lies in a complex host of variables, not just one singular difference. Just trying to be informative, there's no need to be defensive.
  
  [1] https://www.aamcocolorado.com/high-altitude-car-maintenance/ [2] https://www.cars.com/articles/should-your-pickup-tow-less-at-altitude-454166/
  
  Altitude has a significant affect on engine performance [1], regardless of your opinion on transmissions. Conventional wisdom dictates declining carry capacity per altitude gain. "Note: For high altitude operation, reduce the gross combined weight by 2% per 1000 ft. (305 m) starting at the 1000 ft. (305 m) elevation point." [2] As does incline, which if you read my comment carefully you will notice I mentioned.
  
  I'm not sure you're an authority on what folks in the American Midwest are or are not towing with cars, but I will note that automobiles in North America have one rating, nationally. There's no regional tow rating for Rockies vs Flats, or cold weather performance in Montreal vs Florida.
  
  As with most all things in life, the answer lies in a complex host of variables, not just one singular difference. Just trying to be informative, there's no need to be defensive.
  
  [1] https://www.aamcocolorado.com/high-altitude-car-maintenance/ [2] https://www.cars.com/articles/should-your-pickup-tow-less-at-altitude-454166/
These cargo vans are heavier and get worse fuel economy than a half ton with a similar engine. I'm not sure why lemmings hold them out as the more viable alternative to pickups. They're great if you have a bunch of stuff to protect from prying eyes but don't tow well and you can't put long, heavy or tall things in.
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I read somewhere that farmers have started to buy very tiny Japanese pickup-trucks, because for most of the work they have to do during their day these small ones are much more practical. But American car manufacturers only make these oversized mob atrocities anymore, so the only solution is these Japanese ones. In size they're basically these little busses where there's no space between the two front seats.

Most vans have a greater payload than a lot of 4 door duel cabs, they offer more storage, more security，a lower loading floor height, more accessibility with side access and greater resale.

But yeah gotta get my Chevy.

I used to be a tradie, most of them don't need them either, and unsurprisingly, there are always tradies around whining their tools got stolen from the back of their Ute.

The funny thing is that the biggest badasses I met don't drive these kinds of cars. In fact, I can't recall any guy here in Australia who has demonstrated an ounce of courage who does drive a larger ute, and its generally a reliable indicator imho that they need fashion accessories to impress people.

Also yeah, they always suck at parking. Not because they can't, but simply because they don't care

I saw a giant lifted truck the other day at Home Depot and I realized that these things only really impress pre-pubescent boys.

Ergo, the only reason to drive a giant truck like that is to attract and impress pre-pubescent boys. Can't think of any other good reason for them to exist.
- I got my ears blasted by a lifted diesel truck that clearly did something to kneecap their muffler that was...excellerating from stopped in a bank branch parking lot. It was seriously louder than most semis, and significantly louder than most tractors (my father in law restores antique tractors, so I've ridden on several tractors) and could compete with a diesel train with 3 engines lashed together hauling 2 miles of freight up a grade
- These and every single sports car out there.

When I was a teen, I think pickup looks super cool and would definitely buy one if I could.

Now as a more practical adult, I don't think I'll ever buy a pickup because I have no use for them and there's a lot more downsides to it (higher tax in my country, higher maintenance, bigger footprint, lower fuel efficiency). But I still think they look cool.

I ended up renting a brand new f150 lariat since it was the cheapest option available at the time and honestly I kind of get it. The thing was comically huge but I felt like a king in there. Super spacious interior too, my 7 yo nephew was standing up without his head even hitting the ceiling. I would never buy one since they're ridiculously expensive and too unnecessary, but man if I didn't like driving it.

There are certainly practical reasons for them, like if you do a lot of ATVing, you can negate the need for hauling it in a trailer and just drive it up into the bed. It can definitely be nice to have a truck bed for certain things, but many people buy trucks for stuff they do once a month (if that), and not something they do every day, like commuting.

As a homeowner there are shit ton of times that it is really nice to have a truck. There are a lot of things that I would prefer to throw in the back of a truck rather than the back of a van, SUV, or car. Dangerous chemicals, gas cans, gas equipment, anything that might be bug infested, anything that is significantly cheaper by the truck load (mulch, dirt, stone, ect.), anything loaded by heavy machinery, anything that won't fit in a van (furniture, appliances, ect), things that stink, things that are muddy, ect, ect, ect.
And if I had the money to have a spare vehicle, I would probably get another truck. But right now a minivan hauls a lot more people and I can do most of what I need with it and a small utility trailer. But don't think that the utility trailer isn't a huge pain in the ass all by itself.
When I was much younger, it was fairly typical that when a family needed a 3rd vehicle for their kids, they would buy a cheap beater of a truck for the kids. The trucks were slow, could take abuse, limited the number of other idiots you could pack inside, and had all the utility of being a truck when you needed it.
The problem is that those kids got used to having a truck. It became a personal image thing. Trucks got faster, the ride improved, they got not just more comfortable but fucking luxurious inside. They went from utility vehicles to overpriced status symbols.
Even worse is that the same shit is happening with minivans. I went to buy another minivan this year and they are not only all luxury lined on wheels, but there was a shortage and they wanted more than MSRP for the stupid thing. They had plenty of every other vehicle on the lot, but they can't make minivans fast enough to meet demand.
- Why would you drive dangerous shit or truckload of mulch yourself? Don't you people have delivery services over there?
  
  Yeah I'm a homeowner and I got my dirt and mulch delivered by a REAL truck. All my equipment for yard work is electric and fits in my van/suv, and any dirt that is left is vacuumed later.
  
  So, your solution is to just be rich? That is so helpful, thanks, I hadn't thought of that. Hell, now that I am just going to be rich, why even save money by doing it myself? I'll just pay my new yard guys that I can suddenly afford, to do it for me.
  
  Wut? Delivery is much cheaper than hauling yourself. Are you bloody nuts?
  
  So paying someone extra money, above and beyond the cost of an item, is somehow cheaper than not paying them that money?
  You must be a lawyer, or in finance, because they're the only ones that I know that can come up with crazy math like that and fully believe it.

That's fair, I have a truck but I also have a ladder rack on it that gets used often...

I bought one when I moved to a rural area. Since I worked from home I used it mainly to haul dirt, pig feed, yard equipment, and garbage a couple times a week. I spent about $12,000 on an older Chevy in relatively good shape and drove it until it rusted out from under me.

I bought a truck primarily for off- grid camping. Much easier to get a single vehicle into places.

I’ve found it extremely useful for truck stuff on nearly a weekly basis. One advantage it has over a van is the bed space is physically separate. I keep a porta potty in the back for my young kids. Never have to worry about it stinking up the cab.

I bought one to tow a 5th wheel RV. Since I sold the RV, I didn't need the truck so I sold that as well. Nothing wrong with owning a large truck.

I think everybody agrees that there's nothing wrong with owning a large truck to use regularly for things that need a large truck. It's when people buy a large truck to haul a 5th-wheel RV for vacation for 2 weeks a year, and then use it as a daily-driver for the other 50 weeks that we mock them.
- I still don't see a problem with that. Most sportscars are worse for fuel economy and utility but because they're not trucks they get a pass. In the end, what's the problem with letting people drive what they want without judging them? It's just a weird.
  
  Trucks are far more dangerous to other road users, especially pedestrians and bicyclists, especially those with the 5 foot tall, blunt front end that's fashionable these days. But the high bumper height makes them much more dangerous to other drivers, as well.
  
  That's a weak argument. All vehicles are dangerous. What about Semi's? UPS/Amazon vans? You can make anything dangerous and the height is hardly an issue. If it were, they would be banned from being on public roads or mandated to have a bumper that's not too high. Height of bumper is such a stupid argument to make.
  
  Well, you're wrong. There's no nice way to phrase it. Bumper height is definitely an issue, blunt front ends are a visibility and impact danger, and bumper height regulations do exist for various classes of vehicle, and in various jurisdictions. Not Just Bikes covers it pretty comprehensively.
  
  Yet the height of the back of a Semi trailer is higher than any truck's bumper. Do you think really think all vehicles should have the same bumper height? Oh dear.
  
  Are semi trucks regularly driving down residential roads backwards?
  
  How is the front height of a truck (not even specifically the bumper, you could have a low bumper but a giant hood that makes seeing a small child or animal almost impossible) and the rear height of a semi even comparable?
  
  You realize car safety is about more than the height of the bumper right?
  
  Also, YES all cars should have the same bumper height so cars who hit each other are less likely to do fatal damage to the occupants. Bumpers reduce the total impact felt by the occupants and decrease the damage done to the vehicle itself. You can make the bumper any height and still have the rest of the car as tall or short as you want. Do you even know why semi trucks have the lower bumper on them?
  
  They haven't been banned yet because the American auto industry has a really strong lobbying arm that both parties bow to. Why do you think Biden just announced a 100% tariff on Chinese EVs while specifically saying it was to protect the US auto industry?
  
  That's why every semi trailer has a back bumper below the deck height. Those bumpers are mandated by law for safety. Also, the EU mandates those skirts underneath the sides, to prevent other road users from going under the wheels, and the skirts are becoming more common on U.S. trucks, too.
  
  And, yes, the regulations for cars mandate compatible bumper heights, so it's not just me that thinks so. It's just that pickup trucks don't have the same regulations, for stupid political reasons.
  
  https://images.app.goo.gl/QuodHJafoq72JDPe6
  
  Back bumper on semi's is still higher than a truck's bumper.
  
  Car bumpers are rarely ever at the same height so the bumper height argument is bullshit.
  
  Incorrect. The regulations on car bumpers require that they be between 16" and 20" off the ground. The rear guard on a semi trailer must be no more than 22" off the ground. True, that's not exactly lined up with a car bumper, but it's enough to prevent underride crashes.
  
  This is kind of far afield from my point, though, that what somebody else chooses to drive is my business, because they're on the road with me. Pickup trucks are much, much more dangerous to me, because they're much more likely to cause head and chest injuries to pedestrians and bicyclists, and much more likely to push them under the wheels instead of onto the hood. The traffic casualty rates in the past couple of years prove this empirically.
  
  Get out of my fucking lane you big dumb asshole I'm just driving down the road and you're big ass truck can't fit in your lane, and then i see you parked like an asshole in a parking spot, just get something that fits on the road
  
  Seek therapy. Not everyone with a truck parks like an asshole, just like not all Lemmings are assholes.
  
  No just u