Auditor says several college majors indoctrinate students and should be defunded
Mississippi's state auditor says numerous social science and humanities degree programs are “indoctrination factories.”
I don't think we should allow the market to decide how to invest in education.
Agreed. This argument is one of the more dystopian aspects of late stage capitalism. Not content with controlling basically every aspect of our lives, the mega-wealthy want to shape our education, our knowledge as well. Anything that they cannot profit from is considered worthless.
Yeah, and as someone with a degree they value I’m mad as fuck at it. Yeah of course us engineers need education funding, but we need to be taught the humanities too. I went to school with a woman double majoring in biomedical engineering and women’s studies and in addition to her being the sort of badass that wears blue lipstick to stem classes, she was also one of the most well rounded people in our college.
My English prof taught me to recognize propaganda. My lit classes mattered. My fundamentals of stand up comedy class taught me public speaking. My friend’s philosophy classes got me thinking deeper. Intro to archaeology was mind opening. I didn’t take gender studies but I did feel comfortable reading feminist theory and discussing it with my peers. Hell even my classics class made me a more well rounded person by reinforcing that rome wasn’t some glorious bastion of goodness, but a long standing society that’s overglorified but fascinating for what it actually was.
I am not an economic unit. I am a human being. Just as humanities students need math and science I need humanities.
allow the market to decide
Yeah. After all, when "the market" decides something, that usually means the public interest wasn't profitable enough to the people making decisions in it
You say that but then people flip the fuck out the second art and liberal degrees like this go away. Frankly it's what this guy is doing buddy with a nice racist veneer.
TLDR:
"Urban Studies, Anthropology, Sociology, German Literature, African American Studies, Gender Studies and Women's Studies". I'm sensing a bias here.
Also that state funding should match workforce demands for the state - this part makes sense.
state funding should match workforce demands for the state
Here's a better idea: companies should actually train their workers. Lots of times a degree isn't even needed at all. They're just being cheap by not paying for a 2 week training program.
My old job at a large corporation didn't want to pay Nortel to fly out from Dallas to host a proper two week telecommunications class to train their new support personnel. Instead they made this 65 year old "Ma Bell" tech to cobble together and teach a one and a half day crash course. I left with a notebook full of unfinished CLI commands, shorthand notes and just enough information to probably not bring down the entire enterprise PBX system. Good times.
Also that state funding should match workforce demands for the state - this part makes sense.
Should it?
First off, is the point of college to fill job slots or to educate the population? It’s not a trade school.
Second, if you change funding now it impacts programs a few years down the line then prior take 4/5 years to graduate. If you overspecify your funding on the current economic situation you’re always 6 years behind when the grads hit the market.
Republicans treat it as a trade school.
Yes it should. It isn't a discussion (well, it is heavily implied though) that they shouldn't exist, only that the state shouldn't fund it. States job is to get a return on their investment, and funding what is needed is a good way to start - especially in the context of a brain drain from the state.
For the record, im only arguing against the facts at face value. Well aware this has a much deeper motive im not going to defend.
You left out the context that makes it all way worse:
In numerous statements on social media leading up to the report's publication, White said there should be no taxpayer funding for “useless degrees" in “garbage fields” like Urban Studies, Anthropology, Sociology, German Literature, African American Studies, Gender Studies and Women's Studies.
Man, I remember back when it was women's studies getting bullied, then they added gender studies, now we've got African Americans, Germans (I assume because of Marx?), the study of the development of society, and the study of society. They're becoming so inclusive in their discrimination 🤗
The German Literature one made me LOL, at least he’s being transparent about it.
Although they’re not well advertised in the South, trade schools do exist in the US. The reason trades are seen as a bad job down there is the fact these states are all hot and humid, so working outside can be miserable. A lower paying job in the south is ranked by how much air conditioning you get, which can explain why people slave in Walmart instead of doing trades down there.
Not the economics department, though. That's definitely real science and is not an indoctrination program.
I feel targeted
Now you know how everyone making under half a million a year in 2007, anyone making minimum wage, and everyone with student loan debt feels like. Economics isn't a science, anymore than marketing or the law is. It is the art of using the givens about human nature and convincing people that your employer is correct. A lawyer is to be a zealous advocate for their client, an economist is to be a zealous advocate for their client.
There is a reason why economists agree that the Wall Street bailouts were a great idea while student loan amnesty is a bad idea and minimum wage increases create unemployment. No one is paying them to say the opposite.
No I am not bitter. You people are doing the job you are paid to do. Just like any influencer, lobbyist, marketers, or oil company climate researcher.
This guy is a moron. Somebody should audit the auditor.
First off? A lot of these degrees would be useful in the majority of the Econ sectors that are actually growing. But if you notice his junk list of degrees… it’s things like African American studies, gender studies… you know. Things that are “woke”.
So. Whose trying to indoctrinate whom?
In any case this moron is probably a symptom of why Mississippi has a lower than average economic growth; why the state is loosing educated workers; and why it ranks 37th in gdp and is on pace to collapse even further. If you want to stop the brain drain (people leaving…) might want to develop economic opportunities instead of bejng an asshole.
37th is honestly 12 or 13 places higher than you'd suspect from Mississippi, though..
There’s a few other states that are fighting them for the bottom,
One thing I hadn't foreseen was the degree of brain drain at the state-level. Being born in certain states has become an immediate handicap that many will never overcome because they'll never be given the tools.
Great country.
it’s things like African American studies, gender studies
More importantly, those are not things that anyone gets convinced or tricked into studying. People study those things because they are already invested in the subject.
why the state is loosing educated workers
Your are totally right, but this made me chuckle.
"People who study how society oppresses certain groups, and how those groups adapt and remain resilient in the face of that oppression, are brainwashing your kids!" - Dudes in the Oppressor's Seat
Too many college graduates are leaving Mississippi, and aligning degree programs with labor market demand might stem the tide, White said.
It doesn't even take a full brain cell to figure this one out. Tying budgets to the job market in mississippi isn't going to help if they aren't creating reasonable jobs there.
There has been an explosion of growth in the past 30 years or so just south of Memphis, TN; mostly due to the lower Mississippi taxes. It's a decent area. Jackson, MS is about three hours south and it's a straight up shit hole. To be fair, Memphis isn't far behind with their gangs wielding shoulder fired rocket propelled grenades.
Mississippi state auditor? Yeah right! Nobody's ever audited THAT mess!
My engineering program contributed to me becoming a communist, does it need defunded too?
Seriously, being taught to explain to bosses the financial cost of employee suffering and that they won’t listen otherwise was a radicalizing experience.
Edit: read it and holy fuck German literature and anthropology are on the list wow.
Also, Mississippi, idk how to break it to you, you don’t need to fund education less, that’s the exact opposite of what literally every other state thinks you need to do. You’re not the liberal indoctrination in college state, you’re the “barely has an education system” state
I don't think uni shaped my political/economic views that much, at least at the time. However, my school has a bit of a rep for not being big on politics. The real world made me much more leftwing.
During college, I was a free market advocate apologist. Since graduating, I've been getting more and more leftwing and haven't looked back
On a related note, I have no idea how one could live through the covid era and not become more left as a result
Me too, I don’t think I’d blame college, but maybe an open mindedness that cones from a better education. I was pretty right wing in high school, the beginning of me paying attention to politics. In college, I was friends it’s socialists and even a communist or two, and certainly lived a communal life, but I was still leaning to the right.
Currently I’m much farther left but it’s hard to say why or when. Part of it is taking conservatives literally. You want family values, ok, I value my kids, their education, and investing toward a better society for their future. You worship the putative self-made man, the successful businessman - clearly we need that solid base of children’s health, childcare, and education, so all those potential millionaires per have a chance to succeed. You like the risk takers and innovators? Sure, I like that, but it means we need a solid safety net so people can feel freer to take those risks knowing that while they may lose, they’ll still land safely and may one day try again.you say you need skilled workers, I say amen, and free college for all. You say the free market dips the most efficient way forward, I say for sure, for sure, and the government shapes the market for the benefit of society.
Maybe the biggest single event for me becoming solid left wing was my kid getting sick. He’s fine now, but it was very serious. I had a well paying tech job, with excellent insurance, and we live in one of the top medical areas. Despite all the benefits, it was tough, it was expensive, and our jobs made it difficult. How do people handle it without that income, without that insurance, without all that first class medical care, without an understanding employer? That’s just wrong
Reality is woke. Defund reality.
-- some GOP chode, probably
This reads like an Onion article.
I mean, they want to fix "brain drain" in America's second-least educated state by restricting educational programs?
Fucking yikes, man.
Who would have guessed a dude named Shad White could be such an worthless asshole?
Damn. Got 'im!
Who-hoo! I guessed right! Republican and Mindless Bean Counter. Exactly the type of people who should not advise about things University
Is this the same Shadrack Tucker White that studied practical, non-indoctrinary, apoliticial fields such as.... checks notes... "Economics" and "Politicial Science" from a public university?
Well, time to replace that auditor.
Republican Mississippi State Auditor says some lines to scare the base and make sure they keep voting against their own interests
indoctrinate from the Latin docēre, "to teach"
(Other offspring of docēre include doctor, document, and, of course, doctrine)
Being educated indoctrinates people to not be conservative. It's not college's fault directly, they're at fault for educating students, and making them smarter to realize how dumb as shit conservatism is.
I am ever amazed that these people believe they can gut education (or even just the parts of it they want to keep people ignorant about) and still live in a first-world country
eh.... Mississippi is the bottom of the barrel, I'd call it a third world backwater at best.
Why is he Andy Bernard from the Office?
Is it even possible to fund a university major-by-major? Kind of a weird idea. The same class might be used for multiple majors, or minors, people switch majors, the administrative staff would presumably need to be fully paid for regardless of whether there's a gender studies major, etc.
If they were thinking of providing more government funding for scholarships for the majors they think they need more of as a state, it would be both easy to manage and morally absolutely fine. But spoilers, Mississippi is not considering providing additional money towards education.
"Person we hired to say things says the thing" more at 11.
Really irresponsible reporting, to be honest.
Problem: the state has a brain drain.
Purposed solution: make it harder for educated people to stay in the state.
Yeah I fully believe this guy studied economics. This is exactly the kinda ass-backwards logic they would come up with. It not only fails the smell test it does not match up with real world data at all. If you want more of something you dedicate more resources to that thing. The only reason why someone would suggest doing the exact opposite of what should be done is if there is a big incentive to lie. In this case for political advancement. Like I said, he is an economist. A paid shill.
By making programs not available it means that young people leave the state even earlier. It means that they don't have a career back home when they finish. Which means they have even less resources. A vicious cycle. They suck at subject X, so it gets less funding, which means they suck more, so they get even less funding, and it continues until the subject is gone and with it all the jobs. Instead of a diverse intellectual workforce you are doubling down on the few narrow subjects that show profit in a short period of time. Totally unprepared for any market shifts. And in the meantime you can't accommodate anyone who doesn't excel at the thing you doubled down on.
There might be some excuse for this if it were working but it isn't working. You could imagine San Jose pushing their schools to teach engineering or NYC schools pushing fashion but Mississippi is pushing for degrees in fields that have no hope in competing in.
Every single fucking thing is wrong about this plan and no one gives a shit. This guy is going to get some consulting fees bullshit for telling politicians what they want to hear because fuck truth.
Can't do research if you can't read. I swear a bunch of goths will successfully invade Mississippi at some point because nobody can read the orders they're sent.
Is it time to move to Mississippi? I wanna meet goths...
Audit reveals auditor is absolute gullible moron, tonight at 10!
Shad...Shad White
I agree with him. If you want tax payers to pay for your higher education, in whole or part, they should expect some kind of measurable benefit to the state. Data shows poor benefits for the courses listed. You can still study those degrees. Just pay for it yourself. My taxes aren’t there for you to go on a personal journey of self exploration.
"Just pay for it yourself" means don't do it unless you're already well off yourself.
Sounds like "Fuck you got mine" talk to me.
What taxes? How much do Americans need to indebt themselves for for college until people like you stop trying to have a say in what's being taught there instead of it being the job of the professors?
Do you realize I got paid to do my degree in France and we also have sociology and everyone is fine with it
Americans pay on average 24.5% of their income on tax, plus state taxes, CGT, estate tax, fuel tax, etc. All in all, Americans pay a little under $5 trillion per year in taxes. On top of this, the government is projected to borrow an additional $2 trillion this year alone to pay for the ballooning national expenditure.
Someone is making a lot of money on the backs of taxpayers. Since it’s not going to healthcare, it bears some scrutiny.
The problem, though, is that if you want to increase competent people entering certain fields and adding to the local workforce, the last thing you want is to incentivize those fields over others in college. That seems a bit of a contradiction at first glance. But these fields are lucrative for a reason, it takes a high level of understanding to do correctly. If you try and recruit more college students into STEM fields without increasing funding to STEM programs at lower levels, all you will do is drive mediocre students into the field who will have a hard time getting that high payday, even after graduation.
You can't approach education as if you're making a car or an iPhone, where you can simply redirect resources to build products that capture more market share. You are dealing with people, and their life choices. You need to capture their imaginations early in order to motivate them toward a particular field.
What an incredibly short-sighted and ignorant take. Education is about more than acquiring a quantifiable skill that would provide a direct monetary benefit to the taxpayer. Get your head out of your ass.
Yeah, people think of it too much like free money falling from the sky instead of the investment that it should be to justify the theft via taxation that's paying for it.