Paradox how could you

(yeah i know that's not what this is about but it still fits)

Assuming this is about C:S 2, turning off Vsync and setting to medium graphics gets my 60+ FPS. 6800XT and Ryzen 7 5800X3D, Arch linux btw
- I read C:S 2 as CS:2...
  
  It's the TF2 (Team Fortress 2 / Titanfall 2) situation all over again
  
  Same, I had to go back and reread. I was so confused.
- Sorry, that's Cities: Skylines 2, not Counter-Strike Source 2, right?
  
  Correct.
- I had it running at 100+ fps.
  Some of the settings there are absolute killers. Volumetric coulds is nuts. The game is 90% staring at the ground, and I lose 10+ fps with that. Ditto for transparent reflections, and the settings for global illumination on high are insane as well.
  Sure, once you tune it down selectively it looks like CS1... but it also performs like it.
  I really don't understand some of the choices they made here, either in the way the visuals work, the way the default settings work or the way they communicated it. If they hadn't come out saying it'd be super heavy and they renamed "high" to "ultra" or had an intermediate setup between medium and high they wouldn't be getting this much crap.
  
  I strongly disagree. The game has massive performance issues and I'm getting 10-20 FPS on the lowest possible settings with my 2080 Super. At that point it looks worse than CS1 and performs worse.
  Also the 7 FPS or so on the main menu are ridiculous, unless they're using my pc to mine crypto in full force.
  If they release a complete game for 50€ or 90€, then I expect that shit to be a super smooth experience, even on the minimum recommended specs, which do in fact note a GTX 980 if I recall correctly.
  So either get the specs correct, optimise the game properly or get out of the business. I'm a programmer myself and I'd be deeply ashamed if I released software that performs so poorly.
- I've the same GPU but way older CPU (3900X) and could play for 3h without issues yesterday. I noticed that the game is using multithreading way better than C:S 1. All cores of my CPU were used equally which made me think that the technical foundation seems to be solid, just too demanding for the average gaming PC. I'm on openSUSE btw
  
  The 3900x isn't really way older than the 5800X3D, only 1.5-ish generations older.
- These worked for me. I'm at about 10k citizens and the game is running fine. 3000 series GPU
- Vsync off, high settings, full screen windowed Ryzen 2700x, 7700xt.. no idea what frame rates are but perfectly playable... Only 5k in city so far.
  Biggest complaint are the maps... Pretty but annoying.

Do yourself a favour and be a patient gamer.
Edit: It would also do a favour to the industry if you think of it.
- Absolutely

We've been warned, I expected performance to be rough but ~35fps on a 4090 is a new low for me.
- Yeah, there’s “bad” and there’s “embarrassingly terrible”
  
  And then there's everything not triple A, which is 99% terrible but 1% gold.
- I've played some action games in the teens and was fine with it. Maybe lower frame rate at low resolution (1080) isn't as apparent as the high 4K, but I've never understood why people can't play with frame rates still far faster than film (if it's truly refreshing the frames completely and not ripping the picture of course). I suppose this argument goes the same direction as the vinyl/CD one, with both opinions dead sure they're right.
  If the game is handling variations of frame rates during play badly, that's a different story. The goal is for the player to not realize there's a change and stay focused on the game.
  
  I started out playing Doom on a 386, in a tiny tiny viewport, and until recently my hardware was apways behind the curve. I remember playing Oblivion at 640 x 380. And enjoying foggy weather in San Andreas because the reduced draw distance made my fps a lot better.
  Over the years I've trained my brain to do amazing real time upsacaling, anti-aliasing, hell, even frame generation. nVidia has nothing on the neural network in my head.
  But not everyone has this experience and smooth FPS is always better, even if I can handle teerible performance if the game is any good.
  
  simple explanation: people get used to their monitors' frame rate.
  if all you've been using is a 60Hz display, you won't notice a difference down to 30-40 fps as much as you would when you've been using a 144Hz display.
  our brains notice differences much more easily than absolutes, so a larger difference in refresh rate produces a more negative experience.
  think about it like this:
  The refresh rate influences your cursor movements.
  so if a game runs slower than you're used to, you'll miss more of your clicks, and you'll need to compensate by slowing down your movements until you get used to the new refresh rate.
  this effect becomes very obvious at very low fps (>20fps). it's when people start doing super slow movements.
  same thing happens when you go from 144Hz down to, say, 40Hz.
  that's an immediately noticeable difference!
- Some of the settings are messed up, I think. It definitely can run faster than that by toning down some settings on that hardware. They really should have changed the defaults or straight up removed some visual settings, given what they do to the game. In my experience, the volumetric clouds, reflections and GI presets are all messed up and cost a disproportionate amount of performance when maxed out.
- Well, maybe high settings was created for a 6090 or even 7090?

There is a vast difference to other games. The core is fine, mechanics work perfectly, the game looks great, it has just bad performance. That can be fixed.
- Yeah... but some people wish for more finished games and that includes performance.
  Like I get it it's playable... and some games release in much worse state but unless it's an indie game with zero money that needs that early money to continue they should wait.
  
  A company like Paradox should certainly be able afford testers who run the game on a variety of configurations to see if optimization is necessary.
  One thing I would say and this is a broad statement - generally you don't do optimization unless you know you need it. And you only do it after the thing you're writing is working correctly non-optimally. Optimize too soon, or when you don't need to just makes code an unmaintainable mess. That doesn't doesn't preclude writing efficient code in the first place but efficient is not the same thing as optimal.
  
  I am absolutely with you there. I do not like the fact that the performance is pretty bad. But a game that „just“ has performance issues is potentially fixable. Games where the core gameplay loop is broken are usually not getting better over time.
  And I will play City Skylines for years to come so buying it right now and playing with lower settings and less then stellar performance is fine and I will hopefully be able to increase these things over time.
- There's just one thing I want to know:
  Is it more, or less complex than Anno 1800?
  
  More complex but you have less control over what is produced, it's more about getting workers to their jobs and transporting goods efficiently than making efficient production lines.

Have been playing all night, the performances are not great, but it's actually playable for most people with lower settings, and the game is pretty great.
Also it's a city builder, it's okay to play it with 30fps in low, it's not a FPS.
It's CS2, not CS2.
- It's CS2, not CS2.
  At first I tought it was mistake and you repeated the same 😅 .
  
  It's ~~TF2~~ TF2 all over again.
  
  He did repeat the same. Mwuahahah.
- If I was already playing CS1 with 30 fps in low, I guess this would be 10-15 fps if it even starts up, right?
- Also it's a city builder, it's okay to play it with 30fps in low
  In 2007? Sure. In 2023 why should a consumer settle for 30 fps on fucking low settings?
- Agreed, I’ve played strategy and builder games forever on 20fps.
  I remember playing tw:rome (1) on my xp machine at a solid 12 fps and having a blast. 60fps should be the goal if you meet recommended specs I agree but it’s unreasonable to say that anything less is “unplayable” because that just isn’t true
- The need to hit FPS targets has always been blown way out of proportion by the casual gamer. But seeing people bitch about their city builder not hitting 30+ is a new low in the chase for unnecessary frames.
  
  30 is the bare minimum for any game regardless of genre lmfao. Anything below 30 gets hard to look at because of the bad frame pacing, things below 60 can still cause eye strain if you're not used to low fps.

Don't let new games hype you! Play the actually released, proven, Good games - Undertale, Ori and the Blind Forest, TOTK, God of War, The Last of Us, It Takes Two.
There's a wealth of available, old, discount games! Don't roll the dice on new shit
- At the same time I hear you but still I feel like it's still not acceptable to release half done or poorly optimized products and hope that they'll be done over time. For those who pay for the product it's almost an insult.
  
  I absolutely agree, but so long as it remains profitable developers will do it. Skip a whole lot of QC, rush to release the game, then use the launch to gather bug reports and fix those. Costs saved not hiring a ton of QC testers, get a return on the investment much sooner, get early players to pay to be QC testers basically. It's a tried and tested formula now and it will keep happening until too many people won't pre-order games.
  
  Why do you care? Seriously, think about it. Shitty products in every possible category come out everyday and it doesn’t bother you. You do need these products. if they don’t meet your standards, don’t buy them and move on with your life.
  Like, you don’t need to get on line and act as thought you have been personal insulted when there is a moldy apple at the grocery store. Just leave it and keep shopping.
- Some even Paradox ones. One can waste many-many hours in CK:DV with Mappa Regnorum mod, for example. Though CK2 is more complex, it lacks the relative simplicity and clarity.
- I startend playing ori and could not see what the point of it is, can you maybe tell me a little about it to get hyped like all of you are?
  
  Ori unpacks itself slowly. At the beginning, I agree - A pretty basic platformer. Once you find yourself playing Galaga in it, it starts to prove how flavorful a platformer can be.
  Gameplay aside, the music, world and story was so heart warming!
  
  It's a really solid Metroidvania, with beautiful design, music and story. It's not the best Metroidvania (my vote would go to Hollow Knight) but the game is really good. The sequel is great too!
  I don't know how far in you went: the first half-hour or so is just slow storytelling. And just like all Metroidvanias, your set of powers at the beginning is very limited and isn't so interesting. However, the game is well enough paced that as soon as you're comfortable using your current power set, the game unlocks a new mechanic, and it never really stops until the end. It especially shines if you're a completionist IMO, as being able to go back to each area to explore it to 100% with the whole power set feels really great.
- Genuinely this. If you're looking for more off beat games, Ace attorney trilogy is frequently on sale and Ghost trick.
- You're not wrong. On the other hand, i would prefer mediocre game from Paradox over every single one of those that you listed solely on base of genre.
  What is the OP about on? Cities Skylines 2? It have better reviews now that the first wave of negbomb passes. Also i wouldn't even take those under consideration, paradox forum crowd have long and established tradition of negbombing on steam for petty reasons.
  
  My brother in christ, the fucking menu is lagging with 12 GB VRAM.

If it makes you feel any better getting older means you learn to see these things coming from a mile away. The best games are (generally) the ones you learn about from word of mouth
- And when you're older you have no time to game. So, you're a few years behind. By the time they get to you, they're either hashed out and good or have fallen out of popularity.
  Or you could be like me and still play games from the 90s.

Payday 3 :(
- I've been a fan of the series for a very long time. Since the first game. But the overkill that released PD:TH isn't the overkill of today. They are extremely incompetent and replaced by fresh blood. PD3 is going to be a mess and I will not be surprised if they go back to releasing PD2 DLCs again.
  
  I'm just so confused over the time-limited "premium" currency that you can only buy with in-game cash.

Do you have any idea how excited I was for the GTA trilogy remake? I've been waiting for so long. Only to be slapped in the face.
The worst part is that I know rockstar will never attempt to remake them again. I'll never get that San Andreas remaster.
- The issue is that Rockstar never remade GTA.
  They outsourced that work to Grove Street Games who had already done the mobile ports and said have at it. Grove Street Games took their mobile ports (which were already compromised) and adapted them back to console & PC with a new engine. I assume everything was done on the cheap and to a deadline and what they produced is what they produced. For Rockstar it wasn't a labour of love, it was money for old rope and if they had given a damn they wouldn't have outsourced it or at least had stricter quality controls & acceptance on what someone made for them.
  Rockstar made a slightly better job with their RDR port in that they didn't completely fuck it up but it was still outsourced and a minimal effort.

Well I think the whole performance thing have been blown waaaay out of proportion by a vocal few. I have a relatively old pc with an rx580 8gb vram and the game's been running fine for me. Obviously it needs some patches, but people have been saying it's the second coming of ksp2, and that's simply bullshit
- Agree. I'm several hours in and I'm honestly loving it. Face it gamers, y'all just like to hate things, it's fun to be in the "in crowd" who knows better than everyone else to not buy something. Misery loves company.
  Meanwhile, imma keep playing.
- I think the performance issue is not at all overblown, but the complaints about stripped features are overblown. The game is more complex than the original, but it does run like dogcrap right now.
- Don't downplay peoples valid concerns, we should strive for better performance in any game. Just because some people can put up with low framerates doesn't mean others should have to. I think 120fps at 1080p should be absolute minimum performance we should accept out of a game given the power of PCs these days.
  
  Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't want to downplay people's experiences and performance issues ARE concerning, and I personally hold the belief that a company is responsible for the quality of the product they bring to market and ultimately a fault in their own processes if they couldn't. BUT it doesn't take away that the issue has been overblown. It simply, given the game's circumstances, shouldn't be getting the hate it's currently harbouring. It seems to me that the internet's found the new shiny thing to hate on, and the human psyche simply can't resist just a smidge more of rage
  
  Wat. This ain't counter strike. This is a city sim. The hell do you need 120fps for so much that it should be minimum?
  
  Bruh, I don't even have a monitor that can display 120fps, and you want that as a minimum?

Tbh, the game's great. I've literally see someone compare playing a city managment game at 30fps to a slideshow.
Does it run well? No. Is it a disaster? Also no. Is every single other aspect of the simulation better than cs1? Absolutely yes. Most of the reviews are by far exaggerated
- I mean, there are some nits I can pick.
  Places don't feel as alive as they did in the original. The original was still deeply flawed, mind - but this goes even further than that.
  A great example - when there was a firetruck putting out a fire in the original, you could see little dudes squirting water. CS2 doesn't even have guys come out; the fire just magically goes away. Multiply this by... everything.
  There's no bikes (at least as far as I can tell), and the pedestrian path tooling seems to be a huge step back (the only dedicated pedestrian path I can find is technically considered a 2-lane road, but it doesn't allow cars).
  The music has these cute little segments inbetween. But there's only like... 5 of them. Once you hear all 5, you've heard everything and they start to grate. The other 2 "radio stations" don't have the NPR segments, but they do have "ads"... and by "ads" they mean exactly 1 ad that you hear every time for "Spaz Electronics". You can turn the ads off but I'd expect more than just a single one.
  Everything overreacts to anything you build. If you upgrade a road, it technically disconnects power + water + sewage for a hot second. Then you get a bunch of spam about "I don't have any power!" blah blah even though the game was paused and they absolutely had power.
  It's really hard to see what trips Cims are taking. The original let you see the paths Cims took throughout your city, which let you make informed decisions around public transport. Now you can just see... how much traffic there is? Which doesn't tell you anything about where Cims are going, just where you have bottlenecks. It very much encourages a "just 1 more lane, bro" kind of thinking.
  Not having a wide variety of public transport options is a bummer. It feels like they left some stuff out for a future DLC (e.g. monorails).
  There's no light shining from the camera at nighttime, so it can get actually literally pitch black at night. Like "turn off the day/night cycle because this is unplayable" levels of dark. A subtle light coming from the camera when not in photo mode would've done wonders.
  The zoning information is really hard to read. I can't tell what areas I have zoned with something else because it colors areas from other zones as white and unzoned areas as clear... on a mostly white background. It's really really hard to tell at-a-glance what needs to still be zoned in some cases.
  The more I play it, the more it feels like CS1 is the sequel and CS2 is the original. There's just so much that's not done as well or that's simply not there. The stuff they added is cool, sure... but like, I wish it was additive on top of what we had before, and not "back at square one". It just makes me want to play the original.
  
  Can you imagine how much slower the game would have been with bicycles, individual paths and subtle light coming from the camera at night? These were probably performance decisions, not gameplay (though it's possible it was rushed and they cut out non essentials for release).
- I mean, it does have infinite less content, because it still lacks of the flood of DLCs, so it can't be better in that not so unimportant regard.
  It's just not finished yet, and I have no problem waiting for a year or two, you don't have to defend them.
  
  To me it's win win. I can wait for it to go on sale and by then it will actually run on my PC. If it was finished on day one I'd be really tempted to buy it full price.
- I have no issue playing. It runs smooth. I did encounter several bugs though. But that's usual for games released nowadays. I hope those get patched soon. Although I'm happy it works for me, I'm sad to see so many people have much worse experiences. Game developers aren't what they used to be. Except Larian Studios, they are great.
- The original ran like shit too and its UI was garbage compared to any SimCity. Never understood the love for that game. SC3KU was the peak of city sim games.
  
  Nothing after SC2000 was any good.
  
  When Interplay decided that Sim City needed goofy, over-the-top FMVs on a CD-ROM…I think that was peak Sim City. As a kid, I was disappointed 2k and 3k didn’t have professional, career-oriented adults yelling at you for your incompetence in FMV.

Like those reviews mean anything ...
They are filled with unfunny meme reviews, review bombs because they feature a gay person, or reviews from people who don't understand how computers are supposed to work.
I'll form my own opinion, thank you very much.
- I'm having a great time on medium graphics
- Go ahead and spend $50 to form your own opinion. Be sure to leave a review!

It may hurt right now, but trust me, there are
- Is that Dungeons of Dredmore? That was a fun game.
  
  I positively loved that game! I wish they would have made another! Here are my two proudest achievements in DoD!

Gonna need to be more specific....
- Looks like they are talking about Cities: Skylines 2
  
  You win a prize. You have to go find it though. Two hints, it's at the store and I haven't paid for it

Tell me you loved Cities Skylines without telling me you loved Cities Skylines!
Yeah it's a real shame, I've been following this as well.
- what went wrong with cities skylines?
  
  Bad release for #2. Hopefully it gets sorted out, but I don't think anyone expected a launch this bad.
  
  The new one runs like hot unoptimized garbage I think
- Wow, what an obnoxiously worded comment.
  
  Followed by a completely useless comment meant to stir up negativity. Well done.

This is why we still need demos
- You basically get them through Steam - 2 hours is generally enough to figure out if a game is a total ripoff or not
- Piracy is the demo version for me. I pirated cs1 until I decided that they deserve my money.

Makes me think of the Spore hype train…
- Spore early game was fun.
  
  Honestly the endgame was pretty fun as well on face value if a bit barren, it's the midgame that was super disappointing to me. Overall it's a decent game imo, it just set expectations way too high and couldn't deliver
  
  Except like the rest of the game, way too shallow. The idea of it was amazing though.

For me it was fucking Void Train. I just want a new Raft okay??? And that’s what Void Train was supposed to be!!1
- On paper, void train was exciting, but not in execution.

Yo ho, yo ho a pirate's life for me
- I don't think that will fix the performance issues either.
  I think I'll just play the first one or Tropico.

"You get what you fuckin deserve!" -Some sad guy idk.

I'm still excited for cities skylines to release for real this time

I heard someone on Discord claim that the depth of field dropped the performance significantly, and they could run it stable once they disabled it.
- Stable at 30fps?
  
  More than enough for a top down strategy game. Why are you so obsessed with 60 fps in a game where nothing moves fast and reaction times dont matter

I remember thinking that surely Duke Nukem Forever would turn out awesome once it's finally finished. After seeing the reception I just decided it wasn't worth checking out.
- Tbh it wasn't that bad and had some pretty fun moments.
  
  After the hell that was its development, the game was surprisingly good.
  BTW isn't there a project to finish the original vision of the game? That I'm definitely looking forward to.

All they had to do was throw it in Early Access while they fixed it. The reviews would likely be stellar in that case. Releasing it fully in this state just feels like some corporate BS. Disappointed in dev and publisher, and they keep making it worse with their weird excuses.
"Built with modern hardware in mind", homie this shit ain't even running right on a 4090. And 30fps target? Idk what they're smoking.

Runs fine for me. Reduced some settings. It's a game built for the best right now, and for the future. Lot of potential.
- Almost every game has potential.

From what streamers have said, turn off V-Sync and all of the depth of field options and your FPS should vastly improve.

wait for month
- Year

Cities skyline 2 performance is pretty bad from the stream I was watching. HOWEVER according to this review by Wal Der Qual if you set the dynamic resolution to "constant" you will get an FPS boost. It helped the gal on the stream I was watching anyhow. I cant speak for their other suggestions as they didnt get tried on the stream.
- Dynamic resolution? So it is going to bring you down to sub 1080p in order to run at a decent framerate? That doesn't seem worth it.

I haven't touched a game below Overwhelmingly Positive in years at this point

Just mad it doesn't work on Ubuntu steam damnit, download at a hotel in Hawaii to play on the airplane home lmao.
Anyone get it to work??
- This is the number one reason I haven't bothered with Linux.
  I literally only use my PC for gaming.
  
  Yeah gaming on linux has gotten loads better - but it's still definitely not quite there as a main gaming platform. Which is frustrating, because I vastly prefer linux as a desktop experience (and obviously for software development), but I just can't ditch my windows PC for gaming yet.
  Hopefully someday soon
  
  And I literally use my computer to make me $ with Linux development, and IT consulting and game very very little, I've also got other PCs.
  Edit downvote all you want, I'm just pointing out there's other ways to use PCs, I'm just slightly annoyed by the stumble, it's not like I don't have an entire steam library that plays lol.
- I'm playing on Linux and it runs perfectly (nixos though). I wouldn't even be able to guess it was on Linux if I didn't know. have you tried the latest proton / proton ge?

I am so down for a sequel of this game and while it looks good the only thing making me hesitate are the performance issues. I'm tempted to just play the first one more and even pick up a DLC I want for that instead of putting the cash to this.
- So far I've played 4 hours and I just think there's a hate train on it. I have a 3000 series card and took the recommended steps from paradox and the game plays fine, I'm enjoying it. From what I understand VRAM is the choke point, so if you don't have a ton then maybe hold off
  
  I have a 3080 so I should be alright and watching a few streams it seems playable too. Might utilize the two hour refund period and see.

This but when it unexpectedly goes early access after following for years.

For a second I was thinking you were talking about the King Kong game.

And here I am, glad I got Sea of Stars for a slight discount on launch. Such a charming game for ~$30.

Most of the reviews are because of bad performance, but a friend told me FPS massivly increases on medium settings. They just defaulted to high for some reason
- Well yes the Performance gets better on Medium. But the problem with this game is that it's not optimized at all. The devs basically admitted it even before launch.
  Edit: someone did a deep analysis on the games rendering system.
  
  The devs said they couldn't reach the level of optimization they were aiming for in time for release. Would you rather have them release the game a month late or play on medium for a month. I know what I prefer. You don't know what you're talking about frankly when you say its "not optimized at all"

Me and X: Rebirth. Looking forward to it for years and it comes out as an abomination.
5 years later I pick up the game on a deep deep sale and I try to dock and the physics gets screwy and immediately refund it. This was after 4 expansions and several patches to make it version 4.something.
Also Payday 3. Though the server issues have been fixed.
- Are they fixed? Or are less people trying to log in?
  
  Could be a bit of column A&B lol
  
  There are 10 times more daily players in pd2 than in pd3, so the servers arent overstressed anymore. (Also means players don't want to play pd3 even when it works)

Redfall 😑
I was kinda stoked for a cool looking modern vampire game... We all saw how that turned out

This was me with mythbusters: the game. Followed it for 7 months for nothing
- That sounds like Walmart bargain bin shovelware. Was it supposed to be good!?
  
  It was supposed to be good but it ended up being too scripted

youre talking about cities skylines 2, arent you lmfao
- @JonasJones Probably but who can blame them it runs really slow even on a 2080
  @Wogi
- UwU

- Paradox is known to deliver quality.

I have never understood why people anticipate game realeases - I mean, people have learned how the AAA game industry works by now, right?

People would have been complaining about a delay if they had gone that way. I personally like how they handled a no win situation.
- delays would disappoint people but at least keep your reputation intact. Plus, it makes crunch for devs less likely since deadlines aren't permanent
  
  In my experience delays just means the crunch time is extended.
  Anyone thinking this release was reputation destroying is just fickle and shouldn't be taken seriously
  
  Delaying also means that you are burning cash with zero income. You can only borrow money on worse and worse terms, and if there is an actual prime rate hike whoa boy are you pooched.

- For me it's just Project Aces, but even then only in theory. I bought AC7 on release-day but I didn't pre-order, and while I could see myself pre-ordering AC8 when/if they announce it I might just wait for the release again.
- They are digital releases, it literally makes no sense at all. Stop preordering and make yourself a calendar entry if you have to.

Steam reviews are worthless, it’d be better if they didn’t have it
- They are suprisingly one of the most accurate reviews i saw rarely it is a Review Bomb like OW2.
  
  Cookie Clicker has a better rating than FTL