If your vehicle requires software validation to run and it cannot be overriden or fixed by yourself, it is not your vehicle. Don't throw away your money on this.
This kind of shit is why I'm more into older tech. At least you actually own your stuff that way
The Sono Motors Sion shouldn't have failed, but unfortunately it did. They promised an open system and were fairly open during development.
Does newer tech just kinda suck?
I'm the millennial version of a tech illiterate, I have very basic coding skills in Java and that's it, but I've noticed that everything just gets worse as time goes on, and I want a second opinion:
- old webpages (like from the 2000s) are fast and snappy
- new webpages take much longer to load
- new smartphones get bricked easily. I've had 2 new phones get bricked, both my blackberry and my LG smartphone from 2005-2012 still work.
- discord is way less responsive than skype or AIM or IRC.
Everything new just seems more laggy and more prone to random catastrophic failure.
When I was young I actually didn't know what the BSOD was because I literally never experienced it. My first BSOD was in 2017 on Windows 8, even though I've been computing since 1998
The golden age for "normie" consumer computing definitely feels like it took place in the 2000s, and ended somewhere around 2014
Without giving anything specific away, I am a software developer and a consultant, and mostly work on web stuff.
I'll try to keep this short, but in general, yes. Basically, computers keep getting faster, which allows software developers to use higher-level libraries, which are actually less efficient, and thus your average piece of software actually takes more processing power and RAM than back in the day.
As well, because of those high-level libraries, programming is a lot easier than it used to be. Unfortunately, that means that we just hire cheaper developers that aren't as skilled, and they have a harder time tracking down and fixing bugs. Which is doubly worse because those higher-level libraries are black boxes, and you can't always fix things that arise inside of them easily.
But software development companies have basically figured out that shitty software doesn't really hurt their bottom line in the end. For the most part, people will use it if it's a name brand piece of software, like Google or Apple or Microsoft. They don't need to build high quality software because it's basically going to be used by default. The money will come in if you corner a market or if you build something unique, or contract with another business. It doesn't actually have to be high quality.
As well, websites make more money the more ads you put on them. So it doesn't matter how efficient you build it, it's going to be slow. And it doesn't matter how slow it is, because you're going to make more money the more ads and tracking you have. All you need is good search engine optimization and you will get traffic by default. SEO Is easier said than done, but the point is nobody really focuses on performance when it's more profitable to focus on search engines.
As well, because of those high-level libraries, programming is a lot easier than it used to be. Unfortunately, that means that we just hire cheaper developers that aren’t as skilled, and they have a harder time tracking down and fixing bugs. Which is doubly worse because those higher-level libraries are black boxes, and you can’t always fix things that arise inside of them easily.
The Luke Smith/ Mental Outlaw type chuds call these developers "soydevs".
Basically, computers keep getting faster, which allows software developers to use higher-level libraries, which are actually less efficient,
Could you elaborate on this?
So this means that an app that does basically the same thing today as in 2005 is going to be way more resource-intensive because of this right?
Which is doubly worse because those higher-level libraries are black boxes, and you can’t always fix things that arise inside of them easily.
If by "higher level" you mean something like Java libraries, I'd say the opposite is true - at least if you don't have the source for a Java class it is trivial to decompile and have something immediately readable. Can't say the same for something like a dll originally written in C++.
I'm the millennial version of a tech illiterate, I have very basic coding skills in Java and that's it
Being able to code at all already places you in the 90th percentile for tech literacy. Many people don't even know what a file is.
When I was young I actually didn't know what the BSOD was because I literally never experienced it. My first BSOD was in 2017 on Windows 8, even though I've been computing since 1998
You've never gotten a BSOD on old versions of Windows?? My personal experience is that old versions of Windows (XP, 7) were much more unstable than new versions of Windows (10, 11).
The golden age for "normie" consumer computing definitely feels like it took place in the 2000s, and ended somewhere around 2014
Why would the golden age of "normie" consumer computing have taken place in the 2000s, when there were pop-up ads that gave you malware and adware toolbars?
The 25th percentile user today has literally never interacted with a hierarchical filesystem. They do not even know what a file is. The Apple mobile ecosystem is so locked down that it's actually impossible to accidentally install malware. I say that now is the golden age of "normie" consumer computing, because tech has never been easier.
I say that for normies, tech has never been better.
Also, the Linux desktop has never been better.
We have reached the point where you can pick any laptop off the shelf and have it work out of the box with Linux. This used to not be possible!
Linux gaming has never been better, now that we have Proton. Games that used to be Windows exclusives now run perfectly on Linux. Linux is now fully viable for video gamers.
GUI tools are now so good that you can use Linux without ever touching the command line.
While Windows may have become worse, Linux has never been better.
You've never gotten a BSOD on old versions of Windows?? My personal experience is that old versions of Windows (XP, 7) were much more unstable than new versions of Windows (10, 11).
Correct. I never had BSOD and I used XP for thousands of hours in the early 2000s. Mostly runescape, halo trial, neopets, dozens of various flash game sites, etc.
I actually saw my friend have it a couple times and I remember thinking how exotic the solid blue screen lookedWhy would the golden age of "normie" consumer computing have taken place in the 2000s, when there were pop-up ads that gave you malware and adware toolbars?
uhhh because you can x them out? I never got malware or adware toolbars installed on my stuff it felt like "it just werkz" back then, and now it doesn't anymore. I don't even do anything more complex now, it's just internet surfing and some steam games. And discord. Discord also feels extremely laggy, like when you click on something it takes a full split second to switch chatrooms
The 25th percentile user today has literally never interacted with a hierarchical filesystem.
This is only true for zoomers and boomers right?
Regardless of the windows stuff it extends to phones too. Smart-ish phones from before 2012 never gave me problems, while today's smartphones brick often and even while working, sometimes feel randomly laggy in a way the old phones never did. I have no idea what's going on but it feels like the software is just so built up and strung out that it's like a house of cards impromptu stuck together with superglue
- old webpages (like from the 2000s) are fast and snappy
- new webpages take much longer to load
Modern webpages are less like a page and more like a full blown application. If you're not careful you'll get an unoptimized mess, which is exacerbated when you put a bunch of ads on top.
That being said I don't have memories of everything being snappy 20 years ago - there were messy scripts and gigantic images that made Geocities and Angelfire sites near unusable back then as well.
That being said I don't have memories of everything being snappy 20 years ago - there were messy scripts and gigantic images that made Geocities and Angelfire sites near unusable back then as well.
Pages with dozens of embedded JPEG files that are larger than your monitor's resolution and are compressed at highest quality. Easily a quarter to half of a megabyte each and take several minutes to load on dialup, then the webserver times out the connection because you're taking too long to download all these giant files at once.
I don't miss those days. Not to say things are better now, but they necessarily weren't back then either.
Oh, and RealPlayer. Fuck RealPlayer.
That being said I don't have memories of everything being snappy 20 years ago - there were messy scripts and gigantic images that made Geocities and Angelfire sites near unusable back then as well.
I guess I wasn't really accessing Angelfire stuff until the late 2000s
Tech doesnt suck, its the software quality that sucks.
yea that's basically what I meant but I don't know enough to blame it all on software
for all I know the transistors might be gettin too small and these 7 nanometer thingies are buggin up the program more than the older 15 nm ones, or something idk
old webpages (like from the 2000s) are fast and snappy. new webpages take much longer to load.
This part is true, especially on phones, but those old webpages were not fast at all when they were first published.
I remember trying to watch videos on dialup Internet. I'd make it start buffering and then go do something else for half an hour before coming back to watch the video. I also remember avoiding certain websites even on DSL because they had 1 or 2 whole megabytes of JavaScript and it took forever to load.
Increases in bandwidth and processing power has made those old websites seem a lot more performant than they were at the time.
Today we can put a lot more stuff on our websites than we used to, which makes things slower, but we're also much more aware of major performance issues. Google uses it as a factor in their ranking algorithm, and offers a pretty intelligent tool to help developers figure out where to optimize their websites, so it's essential for most companies to optimize for that. Giant companies like Amazon and Facebook can ignore it because they'll always be on top, but the rest of us are getting really excited about new frameworks like solid and qwik that will make it a lot easier to optimize our sites.
Shit, my mid-range motherboard has BIOS rollback functionality for cases like this. I'd expect the same out of a machine I might potentially have to, say, deliver a pregnant wife to the hospital in.
Or we could just not wed the computer to the car on this level.
I’d expect the same out of a machine I might potentially have to, say, deliver a pregnant wife to the hospital in.
lol first thing I thought of too. I've been in emergency situations where I needed to get to a hospital immediately and if my car did this I'd be fucking livid. As dangerous as motorcycles are at least I know that mine will never fail a software update or some shit, and if it doesn't start I can just bump start it to get it going and then figure out what's wrong later.
I'm no luddite but there's beauty in a machine that's designed to be as simple to operate and maintain as possible
Yeah, for something like a car I need a certain amount of reliability - We're looking at something that could potentially turn into a 20 year life cycle. (Never owned one less than ten years old at time of acquisition, anyhow)
Yeah, but reflashing a motherboard is far less dangerous than reflashing a $30,000 car. Your computer couldn’t kill someone if something fails. As much as I hate this image and wished repair instructions were made public, this may be the wisest move from a liability perspective.
If having an onboard computer makes it that dangerous, it shouldn't be on the road at all!
I would guess that the techbro "genius" who came up with this idea is rich enough to afford an ambulance and didn't even consider that people might need to drive somewhere in an emergency.
This isn't even planned obsolescence this is just lazy balls grab.
Lol and theyre gonna charge you a lot for towing and fixing 😂
And depending on what kind of update this is, it's a 15 minute reprogram.
So far Ford has been pretty cool about taking care of things like this. Their dealer service network doesn’t know shit about the EVs and corporate has been mostly helpful to customers while they get things figured out. I fully expect this to change in the next 3-5 years when they either declare things to be working as intended or that EVs are a failure and buyers are now on their own.
The level of surveillance and control tech in modern cars is really concerning.
A tractor of my father made in People's Republic of Poland in 1964, operated very harshly and brutally, and stored outside, still works and cuts grass every summer. It literally needs no electricity - when pulled by other tractor for the engine start, you don't need a battery, thanks to diesel engine with sectional injection pump.
Lol the futures is jokes
Did they just... stick a dial onto a touchscreen? Can I buy such a dial separately?
Yes pretty much. It has 2 functions, rotate and press. The UI is a cluster fuck as the dial becomes context sensitive and requires you to take your eyes off the road to adjust anything.
Innovating new excuses not to go to work
I think i saw this first from here, but not sure if its orignal - https://mastodon.social/@danluu/111643026109666672
Why tf do they not have a rollback option? Even Windows has driver rollback and it doesn't even fuckin' drive a vehicle.
*Unnovation
It all went downhill when the norm changed from manual transmissions and carburators to automatics with EFI. Computers in cars was a mistake from the start.
Why do we need software to drive a fucking vehicle? I currently own a car that has no infotainment or heck, even bluetooth. Don't need that shit, only cuases distraction and I highly prefer physical buttons rather than a touchscreen lol (Heavily based on my opinion)
Huh? What’s your point here? Free software wouldn’t solve this…
It would.
Anyone could flash a previous version known to work, for example.
Anyone performing an intentional upgrade would also know how to revert it. Or any independent repair shops they trust.
Free software would not solve anything you stated. Free software does not imply that you have the ability nor knowledge to flash any new software, it just means the software is usable elsewhere for free. If ford didn’t provide an interface to actually flash anything then foss literally means nothing.
If the interfaces do exist to allow you to flash software then you just go ahead and do so, the current software on the system doesn’t matter at all. Ford doesn’t need to provide their own software for you to flash your own ui, rtos or whatever you want to the car.
Uh it does solve this 😂
As I posted elsewhere.
That has nothing to do with free software. If you have the ability to flash software then the current software on the system does not matter. Ford could make their software open source, free and anyone could download it, but it would be useless unless Ford provided a way to flash that software. The freeness of the software literally has nothing to do with this post at all.
On Android you could flash new rom using twrp or fastboot. On pcs you can do similar by tapping F12.
(and obvi there should be a basic mode in case the update fails)
That has nothing to do with free software. If you have the ability to flash software then the current software on the system does not matter. Ford could make their software open source, free and anyone could download it, but it would be useless unless Ford provided a way to flash that software. The freeness of the software literally has nothing to do with this post at all.
Yeah, it's more of a software issue that there's no override than a financial one... but honestly proper public transportation infrastructure would definitely make this less of a problem.
I mean if the fact that a failed update diables your car, would be open and easily auditable from day one, would that knowlage change your decision of buying this car, as opposed to the other ones?
