Positively bizarre to praise racist far-right theocrats
Positively bizarre to praise racist far-right theocrats
Positively bizarre to praise racist far-right theocrats
It's a "no true scotsman" but those aren't leftists. Leftists don't praise and try to emulate autocrats. Those are people pretending to be leftists who are trying to co-opt, radicalize, or confuse leftists.
Leftism by definition is opposed to authoritarians.
Some are pretending to be leftists. But some just have a Manichean view of the world that they can't shake. Some people change labels when they convert from fundamentalist religion or blind nationalism, but don't change the framework of their views.
No shit, I have seen people outright denying Houthi atrocities because "They wouldn't do something like that!"
Because the Houthis are opposed to The Great Satan(tm), they're automatically rewritten in these people's minds to be at least acceptable in every facet of their existence.
OP blames all the world's ills on anyone to the left of Manchin.
Explain the absolute takes on the Russian war by Jeremy Corbin and Noam Chomsky. They have encouraged Ukraine to surrender, which is tacit approval of Russia's invasion by giving Russia everything that they ever asked for
Explain Hassan shilling for Hamas
radicalize
Leftists are radicalized by default, genius.
Stalin would disagree
The modern definition of leftism is socialism and co. And socialism is inherently authoritarian.
Socialism is inherently authoritarian? The ideology where power, ownership of production, and wealth is decentralized, removed from the oligarchs and capitalist elite and given back to those who generate it? That's authoritarian?
I think you, like many who have been subjected to decades of propaganda have equated "socialism" with the failed states that are "communist" in name only, where power and production was centralized to be redistributed to the people, but never followed through with the decentralized part. They're certainly authoritarian, but they are not socialist.
Also communism is a specific form of socialism. Socialism is not necessarily communism. Like how all dogs are mammals, but not all mammals are dogs.
Giving the people the power of the economy is authoritarian. That makes sense.
New phone huthis?
FYI: Those leftists are right wing trolls under a false flag, exactly like those “Biden takes 100% blame for Israel’s every action” guys. They come from /pol and Telegram.
100% this.
People who think rather than be mindless tribalists can approve of a specific action of a group without approving of their ideology or other actions of theirs.
For example I approve of what the Biden Adminstration has done towards Ukraine whilst not approving of their ideology that puts the Democratic control of people's life in a nation (i.e. the vote that controls the leaders of the state who make decisions for how the state acts for the good of the many) below Oligarchic control (I.e. Money decides) by defending that the state should not regulate anything that might impact Money or "interfere in the Market", and do not approve of their unconditional support of the quasi-Nazis know as Zionists even in the middle of them committing a Genocide.
One has to wonder if the endless posts by this user constantly trying to misportray "lefties" as basically all "commies" (including a cartoon the other day where the leftie character wore a red shirt with a hammer and a sickle just in case we were in any doubt what he thought "lefties" were) isn't very purposeful tribalist propaganda from a very specific American Political Tribe that passes itself for left over there whilst being pro-Oligarch hard-right.
Certainly this endless hammering of the same drum has a very similar stink as the kind of argumentation we get from mindless Trumpists (pre-made generalizations about other people presented as "I know best what they are [even though I've never been anywhere close to that political side]"), clearly driven by the same mindless tribalism and structured as broad strokes group slandering Propaganda (it's hard to stroke more broadly than the entire Left) only this messaging is coming from the pro-Oligarch American Right rather than from the Fascist American Right.
One has to wonder if the endless posts by this user constantly trying to misportray “lefties” as basically all “commies”
Oh, is that what I'm trying to do? Here I thought I was addressing a specific subset of leftists that is common here on Lemmy.
If that's you intention, you're not at all being clear in making the distinction.
A lot of your criticism is against doing things which can just as easilly be the natural conclusions of having run of the mill Leftwing or even just Humanist principles (say: "though shall not kill tens of thousands of children due to their etnicity or help doing so" or "politics should aim for the greatest good for the greatest number in preference to making an aggregated Economic number larger") as they can be the mindless idiological parrotings from actual "commies".
For example, one needs not be an instinctive pro-Russia tankie playing mind games to somehow support Trump, to state that voting for somebody activelly supporting an etnic genocide being commited by the supporters of a quasi-Nazi ideology would be too much for anybody with Humanist principles: absolutelly normal general Humanist Principles such as "though shall not kill innocents such as children" (which aren't at exclusive of the Left) explain that posture of not voting for any candidate.
I mean, I've seen posts of yours that I totally agree with (because they align with my Principles), but in anything which is to do with Political Factions, in my view you totally abandon principled thinking and just go full on tribalist often passing the impression that you have the very same kind of "everybody has a tribe" expectation as the Far-Right muppets.
Might want to consider that many people don't have Tribes (were people blindly follow the chief and untinkingly parrot the tribal slogans), and instead they have Principles, so support or not things based on how much those things align with their Principles not with any Party Line.
My impression here in Lemmy is that there are a lot more Lefties By Principle than Members Of Self-Proclaimed Leftwing Tribes, though there are certainly a lot more of the latter than in the average English-speaking social media.
Too many people claiming to be on the left are just "America bad, therefore anyone who hates America is good" full-stop.
What's more likely;
Their online identities are real and their support for authoritarian nazi-types is fake.
OR
Their online identities are just a mask and their support for authoritarian nazi-types is 100% genuine.
Given how much Lemmy "leftists" trip all over each other in order to praise the Chinese characteristics that cause "socialism" to produce billionaires while overlooking human rights abuses, yeah, I think it is the authoritarianism they like and not the economics.
There’s certainly a “baby socialist” to china stan pipeline. I’ve heard people blame PSL for this irl, but that group doesn’t exist in my area. Online, there’s probably some communities that i could care less about that act as these pipelines.
And if you stay at that baby socialist stage and come out on the other side of the pipeline, you will end up one of the least socialistic people who has deeply authoritarian views and the worst takes. “Ah yes, i’m a socialist, we need 100 years of brutal authoritarian state capitalism to build our industrial capacity to allow us to transition to socialism. That’s what marx meant when talking about the dictatership of the proletariat.” -statements dreamed up by the utterly deranged
Hate to tell you but authoritarianism isn't endemic to either the left or the right.
The most common one I have seen irl is people who are actually on the left, communists, trotskyists, marxist-leninists who are extremly anti-america under the guise of anti-imperialism who have slowly turned into campist “if they are against america that’s good” types
How much they like them varies. I’ve seen people who hate them, they just hate them less than the US, and see them as a part in their undoing. I’ve seen people who kinda like them, but only in the sense they are a resistance. Granted, those people will actually condemn them if it comes to their crimes.
I’ve also seen people focus solely on the yemeni people, and after giving a speech at a protest someone got upset at them for “supporting the houthis.” And in that speech that person mentioned the yemeni people’s suffering under the houthis and their need to go. Some people will also just conflate individual living under a repressive regime to being a member of it, and use that to vilify solidarity with the oppressed. I’ve seen that a lot with calling every palestinian a hamas supporter.
Online people, on the other hand… 😬
In case anybody was unaware, here's some info about the Houthi flag:
The slogan of the Houthi movement (officially called "Ansar Allah"), a Shia Islamist political and military organization in Yemen, reads "God Is the Greatest, Death to America, Death to Israel, A Curse Upon the Jews, Victory to Islam"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slogan_of_the_Houthi_movement
If you read a bit of the recent sick Yemen history that flag makes a lot of sense.
🙋Is saying "fucking up Israeli ships is based" considered praising Houthis?
Praising, no. Dumb, usually; since Israeli ships aren't even the majority of targets hit by the Houthis.
I haven't heard anything about this so I'm not sure about this claim unless anyone is able to link credible evidence
And remember that politics is a spectrum and has its own faction
Remember that we are all human amd we should be working together for a common cause to remove bigotry, intolerance and those who preach intolerance from the world and we should be working towards transitioning away from the exploitative system of capitalism
I haven’t heard anything about this so I’m not sure about this claim unless anyone is able to link credible evidence
Sure. How many examples do you want? Just from Lemmy, or are articles from Left-wing magazines alright too? Twitter and Reddit are low-hanging fruit, so we can exclude them.
When are people on both the right and left going to learn. There is no one in the middle east who's values actually align with yours. So stop supporting a side and lets get our selves completely out of not our business.
Though genocide is our business so that's the one time we should take a side.
But in everything else where we've taken a side it has been a mistake. Folk on all sides of the middle east project to the west an image they hope will garner sympathy in hopes we will fight wars for them and they can avoid fighting their own wars. "Genuineness" is a uniquely western thing to see as a positive value. Absolutely no culture in the middle east values presenting an honest image of themselves to us. The idea of that being socially positive or necessary for their own sense of ethics is literally foreign to them. I'm not trying to single out Muslim countries or Israel. What I'm saying is we in the west do in fact have values that are particular to us, and we need to stop imagining those values on others. That's why the whole of the middle east is like that. Because they aren't us.
Then the other thing we should understand is that all sides employ what are basically professional communicators who study our culture and use what they understand of it to manipulate us. So we get dragged into problems that aren't ours and expose ourselves to actual security threats as a result.
The Kurds are pretty based, all things considered. They deserved better.
Which values? I have met authoritarians, democrats, socialists, and theocrats in Missouri. Why should Yemen be different? I find this "East vs. West" cultural/values narrative to be a convenient fiction for demagogues to take advantage of.
I remember seeing a pro-Palestine protest in Atlanta where they were chanting "Yemen, Yemen do us proud/turn another ship around", so yeah this isn't a straw man claim.
CMV level 1: Houthis didn't exist for anyone in eurosphere until they bombed ships.
CMV level 2: The regime they fought was shitty, but so is their current administration.
CMV level 3: They had zero reason to bomb ships because they don't have any interest in this, but they were told to do so by investors and suppliers like Iran in exchange for something for their corrupt elites.
CMV level 1: Houthis didn’t exist for anyone in eurosphere until they bombed ships.
As someone who follows foreign policy, I object! Some of us were here observing a conflict that had no traction in broader culture and we had no influence over!
The Yemen shit has been in the news somewhat before this. It just hasn't been a very pertinent conflict most of the time for European viewers.
Oh? If I provide proof, will you admit that you're bullshitting, or will you say "No, i-it's just 1 or 2 or 3 or 5 or 10 posters, it doesn't count!"
EDIT: My favorite part of telling when some assmad individual downvotes all of my posts is when I see completely irrelevant and anodyne comments I've made elsewhere downvoted at the same time.
I've seen 2 memes complaining about this and no examples of it. I'm perfectly willing to believe that it has happened - if there's a crazy thought, someone will spout it online.
But it doesn't seem either widespread or representative of the actual beliefs of real humans in the world.
I would like to see your proof.
Not because I don’t think you have any, mind you. I’m sure you do. (Or you’ve got like, giant fucking stones.)
I somehow don’t manage to see comments like that and want to know what I’m missing out on.
I am just curious. I look at car accidents even though I know I’m not supposed to.
And like, it’s not just a politeness, or a ‘don’t accidentally run over a first responder’ (unless they’re a cop) thing – a friend told me they once looked at a car accident (involving a motorcycle) and saw a disembodied head and that they will never be the same again.
Idk I just had the gif laying around.
Generally, unless you are on lemmygrad or hexbear, this just isn't something that happens.
Leftist around here just means a friend of americas enemies, economics and social issues never seem to enter into it, excepto as meaningless verbal cudgels.
Where exactly have you been browsing bud?
Lemmy.ml is usually pretty bad for that shite.
That's just not true though.
They've demonstrated Americans can lose militarily and still not have healthcare, which is both sad and a little funny.
Vietnam beat them by by about 50 years.
You can like a riff from their #1 hit without liking their whole discography, or even the rest of the song.
Ah, the "But you have to give it to the Nazis" argument.
Unironically a good comparison.
Nitrogen synthesis? Arguably one of the most life-saving inventions of all time. But also the basis for gas chambers.
I can celebrate the invention of synthetic fertilizer while also condemning Fritz Haber and Nazis in general.
A Red Sea blockade in protest of the Gaza genocide is a great idea. It’s a shame that the only group willing to do it is doing it recklessly and doesn’t have a moral leg to stand on otherwise either.
When you see "leftists" praising Biden.
DAE PALESTINE? DAE GENICODE?!
Because they're trying to stop a genocide. Typical liberal tactic, since they've given up on vilifying the Palestinians they're murdering Zionists are moving on to demanding their allies be saints.
There's a difference between expecting allies be saints and expecting them to not be so brutally authoritarian it made the Arab Spring equivalent of the "I can't Breathe" chant become a thing
Not being theocratic slime is not subverting anticolonialism to civility politics, if anything it's the complete opposite considering how the religions your theocratic "allies" stump for is literally defined historically by the fact that it is imported by colonial merchants to establish a port elite to the exclusion of local tradition.
Thank you for being a demonstration.
A demonstration of what? You're completely leaving out the brutal context of a genocide as to why the left is praising Hothis. Hothis should be criticized for the wrong that they've done but it's obvious you're concern trolling Zionist that couldn't care less about the myriad of crimes the West and their proxies have committed.
October 7 has been a full mask off event. Never in my life did I think I would see university students chanting in the streets for Hamas. A genocidal theocratic terrorist organisation which would sooner murder everyone protesting for them than give women and minorities rights. Horseshoe Theory isn't a theory anymore. It's real and it's here.
Pretty sure most students are protesting against IDF actions resulting in civilian casualties rather that for HAMAS
university students chanting in the streets for Hamas.
Gonna need a video on that one.
Easy when you consider anyone not supporting Israeli genocide wholeheartedly is Hamas. Just like criticising Israeli government is anti-semitism.