"This is a mistake": House Democrats fume at David Hogg's plan to oust lawmakers
Just a moment...
Democratic National Committee vice chair David Hogg's plan to spend $20 million to primary older Democratic incumbents in Congress has sparked intense anger from some lawmakers.
Everyone over 60 years old should be kicked the fuck out of the party and way be made for younger people who have to actually live in the fucking world being created by them.
They should have done this years ago. This opens the party to get republicans playing democrats to take over that party. We have seen this with at least 10 democrats constantly voting with republicans or a democrat completely switching parties during their term. Split the damn party or go home.
Where was the outrage when AIPAC dropped money bombs on progressive primaries to silence opposition against Israel and the Genocide of Palestinians?
The DNC is dead to most USians, the party leadership just refuses to acknowledge it even when their candidates and strategies lose to literal outright fascists.
No, this is the bare minimum I will accept in order to not consider the DNC my enemy.
Burn it down.
Also, age isn't the problem, the problem is money and a rigid party ideology.
Where was the outrage when AIPAC dropped money bombs on progressive primaries to silence opposition against Israel and the Genocide of Palestinians?
Well when people called it out, Reddit and Lemmy said anyone who saw this was:
If you look at the lemmy.world modlog, so many people calling out this were removed and banned, and then the userbase acted dumbfounded when the legitimate users were "quiet" after being banned, so it verified their bias of "everyone who disagrees with what my favorite political tells me is a bot/troll".
I agree, I lost a huge amount of respect for the people running and moderating lemmy.world after dealing with their reactions to people simply upset that a genocide is happening.
I had an interaction with one of their mods and it was very disappointing to see them so confidently on the side of silencing voices speaking up about genocide.
Sometimes I get the feeling lemmy.world is run by a bunch of centrists who's hobby it is to undermine leftism because they are afraid of leftwing beliefs exactly the way pathetic conservatives are, and it makes it hard to take the entire community seriously.
Some of the prominent very active low effort posters like Pugjesus have absolutely trash views when you actually get into a conversation about their beliefs.
Dem insiders just don't have the same values as their erstwhile voters
Dem insiders are criminally corrupt scabs who are largely to blame for fascism.
Also, age isn’t the problem, the problem is money and a rigid party ideology.
They're not exactly the same thing, but they're certainly correlated.
Im gonna agree and disagree at the same time. Money and party ideology are absolutely problems within our political systems, BUT age is also a huuuge problem. Its in my opinion if we had a majority of the dem party under 50 we would have seen such a better fight against this fascist bullshit. Hell even a republican party thats led by a significantly younger majority may have even helped to prevent this as well.
I dunno, Oregon’s reps are pretty old and trying to fight the good fight.
Hogg is 100% right and they are just whining like babies when they should be doing their effing jobs.
Even the complaints against Hogg are just virtue signaling.
No action. Ever.
They are complicit.
How can you say democrats don't do anything?
God the 2nd pic is cringe.
Why this is not brought up every other day whenever Schumer or Pelosi think they are out of touch, I will never know.
First picture is Democrat Lollypop Guild
Bet they do more against primary challengers than they ever have or ever will against fascists.
“We can’t upset the fascists! We have to think of decorum!”
Might as well make a bet if the sun will rise tomorrow.
If they fought against fascists like they do to progressives, Trump wouldn't have had any chance at even the nomination in 2016.
What the FUCK did they think would happen after the most catastrophic election loss in a generation? The DNC and Democratic leadership should have enough of a sense of the gravity of the situation we’re in to resign in shame. Instead they have the audacity to complain?? Seriously, understand how big of a failure you’ve been a part of and actually DO SOMETHING to help solve it.
This is the same Democratic party leadership that ran Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden and Kamala Harris's campaigns. The same Democratic party leadership that cares more about stopping Bernie Sanders than about stopping Donald Trump. They know who's side they are on, and it's not the same side as you and me. The Democratic party is unfortunately rotten to the core, and it's all about the money. Imagine the concept of regulatory capture applied to politicians broadly and you will understand the modern Democratic party and the state of our government. We need a party built from the ground up to represent the working class, whether it be from the ashes of the Democratic party or otherwise. Primary them at every turn or run independent campaigns where feasible. The other challenge is that mainstream media is owned by the same corporate masters, so it will be an uphill battle regardless.
This is the same Democratic party leadership that ran Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden and Kamala Harris's campaigns.
Yes but no. The people who won the party leadership elections a few months ago are not neoliberal establishment dems. They're the kind of people who would, for instance, spend 20 million dollars to primary ineffectual establishment democrats.
This is the same Democratic party leadership that ran Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden and Kamala Harris’s campaigns.
Hogg has been vice chair of the DNC for like two months...
How is he responsible for what the old guard did when almost all of them got the boot months ago?
They literally think if they sit back, do nothing, and let the Trump regime destroy our government from within, that we will be forced to come crawling back to them next election.
Fuck that, fuck the Dems, we deserve much better than these selfish pricks.
Useless old parasites upset they are being dislodged from the host.
The old moderate Democrats are not going to change...they keep trying to reach conservatives in a "middle" that keeps moving right. I'd say getting Democrats elected, then replacing them with better democrats in future elections would be the way to go, but there's something to be said for getting nowhere with the same.old.people.in.the.same.old.positions.election.after.election.and.never.gaining.a.meaningful.majoritye. Either the positions or the people need to change. Since the existing people are not willing to change their positions on the issues, people must be the next thing to change. The party needs to progress into the future, with younger, more vital blood.
Why would you want Bernie Sandwrs to change. He’s trying to reach conservatives because they are normal people who have been deluded and manipulated into voting for nonsense, but they basically support the same stuff normal people want.
"Fighting Democrats might get likes online, but it's not what restores majorities," she added.
There are currently 2 vacant seats in Congress, which won't be filled until the fall, left empty by Democrats who died in office. We're not going to restore majorities by electing people who keep dropping dead.
Mistake for who? Not a mistake for me, not a mistake tactically considering the policy and popularity polling, not a mistake when you consider that these people have been suppressing popular and well polling progressive policies and candidates for decades and still managed to lose the presidency and both houses to a goddamn moron…
All of this shit, all of these “reasons” they list in opposition to Hogg’s initiative, they are all bullshit. Bullshit and deflections and distractions from the fact that they are concerned exclusively about the bottom line for their wealthy benefactors, and about their own as well. The irony that is not lost on anyone is that they are the assholes who did this to us in the first place, and would you look at that, Donald Trump is about to hand them a tax cut.
They're really upset about losing their expense accounts. Sure they get a salary, but every single one of them has an expense account that dwarfs their salary.
Both sides, the old guard is useless but he's massively anti 2A, which is also not helpful right now.
Na the fascists are also going to need to get rid of the 2A soon. They don't need headlines like "ICE impersonator shot by citizen while conducting an extra judicial abduction"
Both sides, the old guard is useless but
but here comes the excuse...
he’s massively anti 2A, which is also not helpful right now.
How convenient!
If the dude can raise $20 million he can do whatever the fuck he wants with it. Crybaby old farts need to get with the times.
???? Really you think that's what the donors think when they send money to the DNC????
"Here's my hard earned money please do what ever the fuck you want with it, efficacy be damned"
That actually explains a lot tbh. You might be on to something here!
Good fucking riddance, if they wanted their seats they should have defended our country and stood against nazis.
I think it’s safe to say that the ancient Democrats who’ve been holding onto their seats by sheer force of incumbent political influence, contributed to turning Hogg into a school-shooting survivor. Obviously Republicans bear more responsibility thanks to their gun/violence fetish, but these Dems wouldn’t be so angry if he hadn’t touched a nerve. They’re clearly afraid of young people with new and rational ideas.
I hope these young’uns keep at it, their passion and drive is inspirational. Since the geriatrics in power clearly can’t smell their own bullshit anymore, fuck em. No one is entitled to power, you have to earn it like Hogg has through his dedicated activism. His organization has helped pass more than 250 gun safety laws, for example. He’s actually doing shit.
Not only that they're afraid of both the real left and real right of young who can vastly transform the country for the better if they worked together
Which they are doing already. But if they do it even more on every level then that will be HUGE transformations every day not weeks or months or years or decades
The greatest strength the younger generations have is adaptability and having a clearer mind of what to focus on as a collective
They strength themselves, and even more so with others
That’s a great point. The party is only hurting itself in the short and long term by not welcoming younger candidates and trying to elect people who are actually willing to wield their power by trying shit out, rather than just further entrenching themselves by wielding their political influence. That’s the difference, the younger generations are willing to try out new policies and see if they work. That’s how this whole fucking system is supposed to function. Try something out, if it doesn’t work then too bad, you lose the next election and continue working on your ideas while the other party tries their shit out to see if their ideas work. We’ve strayed so far from that, that everyone is just accustomed to the government not trying big things, and nobody trusts that the other side would ever govern or compromise in good faith.
That’s why their anger is so frustrating to me. They’ve been there forever and done jack shit, and whine like children when someone young comes along and acts more mature by offering to fix the shit the elders have refused to.
If it has to be democrats instead of a new party, this is literally the only way to make it work.
Good Job David Hogg and Leaders We Deserve, hope you oust a ton of these ancient shitbirds.
The neoliberals no longer have the chair....
Ken Martin does...
And the same DNC voters who elected him, elected David Hogg as a vice chair...
Like, this is the party.
Why would we push for a new one, when we just got control of the old one after decades?
We're not doing another 2016
We can have leftist leadership or admit we want a fascist dictatorship.
The DNC have had over 50 years to choose to force their rich doners to make concessions. They've shown they aren't interested.
The Neoliberals don't get to be in charge anymore.
Martin has been making the same AIPAC-slave moves as the last dem corporation leader. The time you spent learning his name was completely wasted. He might as well be the last guy.
Until there's no more first past the post, a progressive party would have to replace the democrats, or it would split the "default non-stupid" vote.
Let them pound sand. These geriatric bastards are incapable of adapting to the malevolence currently destroying everything. We need somebody willing to punch these conservative bastards' teeth down their throats.
Any other job where you fail as hard and as often as those old fossils do, you get the fucking boot. Why do they think they're entitled to their fucking seat? You fucked up and have been responsible for having the world's worst person elected twice now. Time to go.
Frankly this is a good idea in the long term despite a possible short term loss.
The Tea Party hurt the Republicans in the short term, but they took over the party and purged the liberal elements. They replaced Eric Cantor with a speaker who does everything they want. They’re a monolithic block now and have been winning out on their strategies ever since.
AOC ousted 10-term congressman Joe Crowley in a primary by a huge margin. A few more of those couldn’t hurt.
We should be doing this to every single motherfucker who clearly is doing insider trading.
I agree, we do need a "Guillotine Party" to do for us what the Tea Party did for the GOP.
Unfortunately, Hogg and gun control are part of what needs to be removed.
As always, there's some excuse for why the person who is trying to move the party to the left shouldn't be doing that.
It's neat watching the party go from "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good! It's just a little genocide!" to "This guy who is primarying centrists who hold us all back doesn't agree with republicans enough!"
Of all of the people in this thread for whom the second amendment fills the void where a personality would be in a more complete person, not one cares about the incumbents' opinions on firearms.
And the kids that die as part of your demand for gun ownership rights, you just dont care about them at all do you. You need to man up and take care of your community.
"What a disappointment from leadership. I can think of a million better things to do with twenty million dollars right now," swing-district Rep. Hillary Scholten (D-Mich.) told Axios.
"Fighting Democrats might get likes online, but it's not what restores majorities," she added.
The issue is we get majorities and then nothing gets done with depresses turnout.
We don't want to primary these old conservatives, we'd much rather them represent their constituents, but they've shown time and time again they won't.
We'd rather they get out of the way and resign, but they won't put the future of the party over their own personal power.
So fuck em.
I agree about "fuck em", let's get out with the old and in with the new.
But what majorities are you talking about? I keep seeing this repeated all over the internet- the sentiment that Democrats get nothing done when they have control. The problem is that I'm 33 years old and the Dems have only had control of the federal government for a few months of my life, and that's when they passed the ACA. I can't really make a judgement on what the Dems do when they're in power because they largely have not been.
So the best thing the Democrats could do when they had a super majority was pass the Republican healthcare plan? And you don't see why that's a problem?
you owe it yourself to read up on american political history and; if you did; you would learn that every time they've had control of all 3 branches of government; they've squandered it by letting a one or 2 democrats derail all of their plans, meanwhile republicans steamroll over their own dissenters every time they're in control.
you'd start to see that this pattern keeps happening again and again.
The problem is that I’m 33 years old and the Dems have only had control of the federal government for a few months of my life, and that’s when they passed the ACA.
What?
We literally had it 2021-2023...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Congresses
And from 07 to 11....
What are you talk.ing about "a few months"?
The "intense anger" tells you this is absolutely the right thing to do.
We've been past the fume stage for a fucking while
Let me guess - the older lawmakers who voted for some of Trump’s cabinet nominations?
Exactly. And those older law makers get in the way anytime people want to even attempt to make things better.
If you were confident that you've done right by the people you represent then surely you wouldn't be threatened by challenges to your incumbency.
Anger because they're useless and they're being called out.
I agree with the older Dems, but not for their reasons.
No, we should not support the candidates that Hogg supports. Because Hogg is very opposed to 2A rights, and ipso facto any candidate that he supports will also be opposed to 2A rights. And if you think that we're gonna just vote our way out of this, I've got some very, very bad news for you.
Primary the old fucks with young leftists (hopefully ones that actually understand economics and tax policy)? Absolutely! Primary them with ones that ideologically aligned with Hogg? No.
Once they're primaried, people can vote for whoever is the better candidate.
I'm really tired of voting for better candidates that are in favor of reproductive rights, and LGBTQ+ rights, that want religion out of politics, that support genuinely free speech, and then also want to eliminate 2A rights. We're already seeing what 75 years of libs and progressives working to disarm themselves has done, and the result is that ICE agents aren't getting gunned down in the streets when they're kidnapping people, and the fash are free to do whatever the fuck they want with zero fear of consequences.
That was my gut instinct too, who is this kid, how did he get a vice chair position, and ya who are these young candidates and do they understand global economics, international relations, military. What roles in congressional comittees will they be qualified for. I'm tired of seeing morons overseeing nukes. Thats gotta stop.
Thank you, David Hogg. So glad you survived the school shooting. 👍
Where do I donate to David Hogg?
Leaders We Deserve is his PAC which is funding this primary challenge initiative.
has sparked intense anger from some lawmakers.
Who gives a shit. What do potential voters think?
He is trying to get rid of the dead wood.
LO AND BEHOLD M'LORD.
I was just talking about how the dems are ineffective and have no strategy, and here's another one to add to my list of sources.
Take traitor Jeffries’s request to Justice Democrats seriously. Unseat that piece of shit while he’s minority leader.
While this article by Axios and other recent ones seem to cast David Hogg in a bad, unproductive light, I am grateful that they brought attention to the matter.
Because I forgot to donate to his campaign, and I'm not going to be left out of that wave of support.
I do believe this is his organization's page, Leaders We Deserve:
I'm very proud of our young progressives. Go, David!
He's a DNC vice chair already, he's going to be around for a long time and another sign the current DNC isn't the DNC from just a few months ago.
I love his energy, but I sincerely disagree with the whole gun control narrative right now. Leaning into that when there are about to be a shitload of far right militias deputized is an absolutely fucking idiotic plan.
I get it, but this is where he comes from, I thought the same thing you did until I read this.
So like… I was in my early thirties when this happened. I know. I remember. I watched some of the news livestreams as it went down.
I said what I said understanding that.
I am by no means trying to diminish, demean, discredit, disparage, or otherwise detract from his experience. Im saying that I am very fucking concerned that an actual war is coming, and disarming right before a war is a great fucking way to get killed.
Those laws wouldn't get passed until this whole thing is over and there are progressives in office able to actually do things, if that happens. You wouldn't have gun control as the law of the land in two months. And guns need to take a massive fucking back seat in America. No more blood cult shit, because that's what it is.
Go for what you actually want, which is freedom. Freedom is when you aren't surrounded by people with guns.
Freedom is black folks being able to shoot Klanners who try to burn down their homes. The 2nd Amendment isn't just for pricks.
Exactly. He has the right idea on this, but given his gun control background I don't trust him any farther than I can throw him.
Gun control is, at this point, nothing more than a way to lose votes. To an anti-gun liberal, gun control is good policy that saves lives. To a pro gun person, gun control is an unconstitutional civil rights violation that makes a candidate unlectable. This turns away an awful lot of pro-gun moderates from rural areas- these are the voters who make a difference in elections.
And as for the anti-gun base, and anti-gun moderates, what are they going to do, vote Republican in protest? Let's be real.
Gun control is a lose lose proposition
someone should show him betos runs, yea it wont work.
Gun control means: mandatory background checks, waiting periods, bans on previously convicted violent criminals owning guns, potentially magazine limits or limits on fully automatic licenses to specific users (like you may need to demonstrate you have proficiency and be a member of a gun club). None of this goes against "the right to bear arms".
It does not mean nobody can buy guns or that guns are taken away - this is the fearmongering always pushed by the very conservative, very pro-Trump NRA.
We agree on what "gun control" means. We do not agree on the need for gun control, nor do we agree on the affects of gun control on the right to keep and bear arms.
Mandatory background checks
That means forced to go to an FFL dealer before trading guns with your friends and neighbors. No private sales, even to trusted parties. Unacceptable. Every legitimate purpose that a mandatory background check provides can be accomplished by creating public access to NICS. With that in place, every seller can know, and so is expected to know their buyer's status. But, "public access to NICS" is not part of our shared definition of "gun control", and has been fervently opposed by Democratic leadership every time it has been proposed.
waiting periods,
Even in theory, waiting periods can only achieve their intent with first-time gun buyers. For everyone else, they serve no purpose other than to hassle gun owners. You could theoretically walk in to a gun store with an AR15 hanging from your chest, a Remington 870 over your shoulder, a S&W 500 holstered on your waist, a 1911 on your hip, a Glock 26 on your ankle, and an LCP in your pocket. But, while you're walking around with three defensive pistols, a big game handgun, a shotgun, and an intermediate caliber rifle, the clerk at that gun store won't let you leave with a bolt-action .22LR plinker. Suffice it to say, waiting periods are unacceptable.
bans on previously convicted violent criminals owning guns,
The only reason to even mention such bans is to deceive people into thinking they don't already exist. They do. That deceit is completely unacceptable.
potentially magazine limits
The usual limits proposed are 6 or 10 rounds. These numbers are not derived from any studies on defensive need. They do not consider whether 6 to 10 rounds is sufficient to stop a deadly threat. They do not consider multiple attackers. Unacceptable. The various proposals often apply to guns that can accept such magazines, rather than the magazines themselves, and would thus make most existing guns illegal. Only firearms with fixed magazines could comply with such laws. Unacceptable.
limits on fully automatic licenses
Fully automatic firearms, suppressors, SBRs and SBSs are already overburdened with excessive licensing restrictions. Unacceptable.
Harassing gun owners with these ridiculous gun control measures is costing elections. David Hogg was brought to the DNC by the inept leadership to support their losing message on gun control. He and his pet issue are part of what the Guillotine Party needs to excise.
Gun control seems to mean 'a little more'. This comic is popular among gun owners because it reflects the feeling of constantly ratcheting 'compromise'.
A perfect example of that is background checks. The original bill was a compromise, All gun sales at gun stores are required to have a background check, but the compromise is that private sales between one person and another are exempted. That was a negotiated compromise between the pro gun and anti-gun side. I think for the most part it was a decent compromise. But now the anti-gun side is trying to roll it back calling it the 'gun show loophole' which is horribly named because a gun dealer at a gun show has to do a background check anyway, and most gun shows require background checks for all sales either from a dealer or a private citizen.
The problem with universal background checks is the concept of a transfer. For example, under some proposals, if you want to lend somebody your hunting rifle to go hunting with, that might count as a transfer, which means you have to go to a gun store and pay about $50 and fill out paperwork to legally transfer ownership of the gun to them. And then when they return they have to transfer it back to you.
You should also know that an awful lot of gun owners absolutely hate the NRA. They serve a useful purpose, but their constant deranged rabble rousing fundraising makes gun owners look like paranoid morons.
What I would much prefer to do is outreach and education. An awful lot of gun control laws are based on a total misunderstanding of what guns do and how they work and what makes them powerful or not, I think if more Democrats actually understood guns you would see fewer attempts at bad laws that do nothing to increase safety but just try to turn the screws on gun owners.
Time to clear out the affluent old fossils who act as controlled opposition.
The DNC fucked every god damn thing up.
Okay I usually take a hardline anti-DNC position, but I have to say this is good stuff. Go get 'em Hogg! However I do wanna point out that if Americans don't protect their right to free and fair elections none of this will amount to anything, so y'all still need to get stuff done on that front.
God the more I learn about this kid the more I am impressed and behind his every move!
Can you tell me more about him? This is the first time I've heard of him and I can't find much online.
Here it is. The democrats they say are fine. Squibbling over 20 million. Please, are you the second most powerful political force in America or are you just a bunch of sphistocrats.
they have the same donors basically.
This is an OUTRAGE! The DEMOCRATS Need to CONTINUE Their Proven plan of Allowing Trump to DEPORT American Citizens to El Salvador while making it ILLEGAL to Vote so they can SHORE UP VOTES for KAMALA HARRIS! How DARE David Hogg make Them WORK for Their Position as a PUBLIC SERVANT! That's NOT what Democrats are ABOUT!
-Chuck Schumer and Top DNC Officials!
Nah, let's run Nancy Pelosi in 2028. Lmao
It's clear Democrats aren't interested in winning. Being a anti gun zealot is not going to win elections in the USA.
Democrats will not fight for me and my rights even in the best of times, so i would never in a trillion fucking years be okay with disarming. My body my choice in how I defend myself.
Six out of ten Americans favor stricter gun laws. Every year we lose the equivalent to a war in lives to gun violence. It is not just lives lost either. Millions of Americans live their lives in fear due to gun violence. Almost 60 percent of Americans know someone lost to gun violence.
Over 5 Million women are threatened by guns every year and we lose more children to gun deaths than the rest of the world combined. Guns are a cancer on our society.
If one of them with a high chance of winning gets on the ballot then IDGAF which Democrat it is. They're always better than the Republican.
DNC: We need older candidates.
They are so good at messaging.
David Hogg is literally a vice chair of the DNC and has the backing of the chair in saying this...
You're literally commenting on the DNC doing what you want and saying they're doing the opposite
Almost had me excited there until I tried to look to see if they named who they were going to primary... Source
This is just a poor use of the meme format.
Sweep out the bullshit.
We're mad bc he's not like us. Good!
If they offered a viable alternative, this wouldn't be necessary.
This guy would have been 8 years old when obama was elected seriously I can't get over that. He's the Vice chair of DNC? I ran a company at 25, but i was not ready for that kind of leadership position. I learned so much between 25-30. Putting a fucking kid incharge of the DNC based on what? Who is this guy and what are his qualifications for this position?
His qualifications are wanting a change in direction when the status quo isn't working. What the hell is the point of keeping geriatric corrupt asshole in charge of the DNC when they would rather lose to Trump than allow a progressive to win? What has all their supposed wisdom wrought?
Wanting change isn't a qualification. That basically includes every human on the planet. Does he have the education and the experience to be deciding the future leaders of the country. Does he understand the issues we face domestically and abroad? I guess im trying to get a better feel for how this young mans wisdom and strategy will benefit me, a democratic voter since 2008....
I'm totally down with primarying everyone. I'm also ready to see the older fuckers retire into consulting positions. I value their wisdom and experience, I do not value their inputs into our democracy. In short I am with you.
However this all reeks of populism, so I'd like to know which candidates we are spending money on. I also think that spending money campaigning against friendly seats is not a wise use of money in this time. Im sure those reasources could be better spent on common cause. This feels a bit like a witch hunt. Happy to see a long string of qualified candidates and be wrong tho!
Hogg's too young! Bernie's too old! AOC is a woman!
What's the next excuse for why the party opposes only its left?
With how fast the Democrats became Republicans, I'm sure they'll start complaining about food stamps going to illegals soon
I came to the conclusion 2 hours ago that the problem with this country is not the government, but the two parties holding it hostage. I envision a country where we form 2-3 new parties who can represent their constituents and protect the Constitution. I think Dems are traitors too. I think I would vote for a party that was lead by AoC and guided by Bernie. Idk who hogg is but ya i have serious questions about a 25 year olds understanding of our country and it's issues. I think if he's vice chair of the DNC i should know more about him and his qualifications to chose candidates? Don't you beleive in transparent democracy?
