Giving up control bit by bit

Meanwhile Windows; Hi, you saved a file earlier? Let's search for it. Nope, can't find it, do you want to search Bing? No? [A few minutes later] Ooo, so sorry you're offline and can't download it. Too bad.

Ios; you want to open the file in an app? OK, click 7 buttons and we'll make a local copy stored in the app's specific folder you didn't know existed.

Chrome; what's a file?

Linux; which file browser would you like to use today?

Windows is more like, oh that file you saved earlier? Yeah we moved that to OneDrive. You want it back? Sorry didn't pay your OneDrive subscription fee, so you don't actually have that file anymore. Hope it wasn't something irreplaceable like your kid's baby photos or anything lol.
- I use Windows and have never encountered what you are describing.
  none of my files have ever been 'moved' to OneDrive and none of my files that are on OneDrive have ever been locked behind a paywall.
- You are just making shit up 🤣
  Just pathetic stuff, missing up stories to simp for an OS.
Linux:
ls
cd directory
ls
cd directory2
ls
cd directory3 ...
- Oh boy do I have a tree to sell you
- On linux you don't search, you find
Use a system indexer like Listary or Everything and you never have to worry about finding a file ever again, just type its name and it'll be the first result
- Everything is fantastic. Plus it can be integrated (somewhat) into Classic Shell's search.
Funni, cause the comment below from AstralPath and lightnsfw tells a different story
- Not my fault they choose to Linux on hard mode :p

I really do wish that more packages on Linux had installation paths clearly noted in a readme.

I've been using Linux daily for over a year now and I still have a hard time tracking down config files and install paths. Its just not one of those tasks I do regularly so I always forget best practices when trying to find stuff. The CLI always gives me the best results but getting the commands right can be tedious.

I've started saving useful commands in a note on my desktop.

i just give up after a couple of minutes if it isn’t somewhere obvious and then search my whole system with grep lmao.
how wonderful to live in a world where compute is so cheap.
- Amateur. I read the source on GitHub to see where it's saving that shit.
Which readme?
The one on the github that has out of date instructions and tells you to check the discord?
The 6 year out-of-date one on your distro's wiki?
or The gnu-info/manpage that is only for the original upstream and doesn't tell you where all the files have been moved or that half of the software isn't actually installed since it was split out into extra packages for justdebianthings
- To be honest, sounds like you aren't using arch btw. Jk I have the same issues on arch
- Do I really need to remind this is free software made by benevolent developers? I get it it's infuriating but it's still in some way a gift you were given and seem unhappy with.
dpkg -L package-name
Or the inverse
dpkg -S /usr/bin/somefile
For apt based distros, obviously.
- I just tried this with Samba (so dpkg -L samba and dpkg -S samba, and I also tried adding grep "smb.conf" and running it with sudo) and I was unable to find the share config file.
  It's located under /etc/samba/smb.conf but that command was returning a path under my local user. This is on Ubuntu
- This does not return all "config files and install paths" as it only ever considers files that came in the package, not files created by the package (such as /etc/samba.smb.conf, which is created during installation), so doesn't actually solve the problem.
  That limitation should've been made clear in the advice itself so as not to send users that don't know better down dead ends, though the subsequent discussion between this and the previous user is a great illustration of how the way some give Linux "advice" just ends up frustrating those seeking advice.
  (It even eventually frustrated me because over the years I've had to teach plenty of junior developers to not give advice like that, only they're seldom so bad that they insist they actually know what the other person wants even in the face of a user providing proof that they do not)
People can say what they want about Windows, having stuff installed in a folder called Program Files with sub folders using the brand/program name is so much simpler than whatever the fuck is going on on Linux.
- Until an app decides to install in the hidden AppData folder with the confusing sub-folder names, or even the root of the user folder, or god forbid in a folder in the root of the C drive
- WinXP times are long gone, my friend. These days I will sooner dig out where vim plugin source code resides on Linux than figure out config file location for a fucking game on Windows
- For user specific files a lot of modern programs try to adhere to https://specifications.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/latest/. You should set those environmental variables and check there first.
  For system level.. it's definitely more complicated. I check /etc first and then then /usr dirs. If you're using your system package manager there is generally a way to query it for that information, but it's typically CLI based.
  Or just use our lord and savior NixOS and configure everything in a single directory
I've started saving useful commands in a note on my desktop.
Great idea
hard time tracking down config files
Usually under ~/.config/
<app>
or ~/.local/share/
<app>
- Often also in /etc/
- Or ~/.
  <app>
As a long time linux user, I think all programs should have a config gui. (Not all, but you get what I mean)
- I think it should be GUI config or detailed man page/readme. The amount of assumed end-user knowledge by devs is way too high.
I usually start inotifywatch with read events, open the program, close it and see what inotifywatch dumped.
Every time I touch a config file/setting I document it in my notes. I would be lost without it.
Suprised nobody said to use whereis xyz

Can't get the save file from some android games anymore. 🤷‍♂️

One of these days, they'll add a censorship chip into every consumer electronic.

you likely can with another file manager like Amaze
- You still can't write into it, which means you can't continue off a save file from another phone.
  I suspect this is to make piracy harder. A lot of paid mobile games (Ported from PC) seems to want you to use Google's cloud these days.
  The only exception is like Stardew Valley, where they put the save directory in a normal folder. Every other game make it impossible to move your saves.
  Heck, Into The Breach is even locked to Netflix. You need a fucking Netflix subscription for that. No thanks lol, I'll enjoy my illegal download. (I have to type in a cheat code to unlock the stuff every time I set up a new phone, but its a roguelike, so not much data is lost anyways)

I can find files just fine on my Android phone, BUT when saving files on my iPad this meme would be true.

I was editing a document on my iPad, saved it in a folder labeled 'documents', searched with the files app and the document folder wasn't on my iPad or iCloud.

Come to find out the app itself made a folder named documents within itself. So in order to get it on my iPad itself i had to share the file to dropbox then redownload it 🤨

Yeah, developers can't access those folders without some super specific permissions, so most just use the dedicated app folder.
- I have learned the horrors of Apple since getting this thing. Like it for drawing and 3D sculpting, but that's about it.
Home puter is a Mac which I only use for the Logic DAW but they have a primary app called Finder which has never found anything I asked for. Its a Finder that doesnt Find.
- F
Same, I always have trouble with finding saved files on ipad/iphone. Often it saves a pdf as “document”, and overwrites the previous download with similar name.
- That's annoying. I have not yet had the displeasure of experiencing the overwrite problem, but i am sure it'll happen soon enough. Thanks for the heads-up!

Don't you know? Users being told the exact location of a file is not user-friendly!

There are not files. There are only vibes. If your surf the vibe ocean well enough, you will find what you were looking for.

Bit by bit? The move to mobile was like getting hit in the face with an inaccessibility bat. I hate mobile OSes with a passion. Unfortunately, they're overwhelmingly the way through which people interact with the Internet or do any kind of tech stuff anymore. I do a lot of audio work, and Android lacks even simple routing software. It just uses the last audio device plugged into it. Never mind you only want to use the mic on that and not the output. Forget using multiple devices. It's infuriating. You'll pry my desktop away from me through my cold, dead hands.

Sounds like you should install Ubuntu touch on your phone
- Doesn't work on all devices though

I miss when computers did what you wanted them to do and not what the corporation wants you to do.

We call it Linux.
- Android is built in the Linux kernel. That's actually some of what causes this - Android's permissions model takes the Linux model and amplifies it. Apps are treated like users to prevent them from messing with each other's files. If an app uses Android's downloads manager it can write to the downloads directory, but it can only see the files that it put there.
- obviously
Sorry, best we can offer is renaming Control Panel again and shuffling around the place you can find certain settings

It's almost as if this is a computer architecture designed for idiots who don't know or care what a file is or for what purposes their data is being harvested. Everywhere I hear people falling over themselves to declare that the tablet smartphone was apple's golden gift to the world. Try to do any serious work on one, it's fucking annoying.

Whenever we make technology accessible to stupid people it becomes irritating to use and a privacy nightmare.

It’s almost as if this is a computer architecture designed for ~~idiots~~ human beings who ~~don’t know or care what a file is~~ interact with computers on a non-file oriented basis or have been lied to and systemically unsupported in their education for what purposes their data is being harvested.
No hate. No useful conversation starts with calling large swaths of people idiots, is all.

Opens the files app which shows all files that were recently downloaded from any app to the file system.

That's like piling all your paperwork on your office desk in a giant tower in the order they came in and arguing that's just as good as sorting them into files and putting them in the cabinet.
- There was a legend I heard of in an engineering office. There was an engineer at this company I worked at, long before I was there. On the first day of work, he created his first file, file 000001. He pulled out a notebook, and wrote the file number and the document title. Later that day, he moved on to file 000002. And so he continued. For many years, one document after another, all in sequential order. No one ever bothered to inquire about his numbering system. He simply sent files off when needed, renaming as necessary. No one ever needed to poke through his work computer. Then, one day, he got laid off in a company downsizing.. He simply took the notebook with him, took it home, and burned it.
- Is this your first file system? It literally does sort it into "videos" if I have a video or "images" if it's an image. What do you crack heads want it to do?
The meme says saved, not just download.
Open Recorder app.
Record and press save.
Open Files app.
The file is not in recent.
The file is not in audio.
Delete this bullshit.
- Oh, so I am not alone. Good to know, but damn what a crap of "software"
- It literally does show up under recent for me. I used the screen recorder built in stock and it shows up as a recent file. Did you even try to do this exact thing?
mine doesn't do that. also, what if you're looking for a file that's older than three weeks old? should I go fuck myself then?
- You could use a different file manager. And there's a few places I would look for files : downloads, pictures, etc, or in a folder named for the app under one of those places
I do that with my email. Email has a search function - if I don't know a key word in the email or approximately when it came in, how would I know that I found it if I ever found it in some other way?

just be glad you don't have an iphone. at least on android there are easy ways to remedy this.

iPhone has an app aptly named Files. Inside here are files. Pretty sure it works the same on Android.
- Pretty sure you've never used an Android, iPhone file managemt is locked down and dumbed down garbage, made so to make people more dependent on paying for and using the app store apps, without understanding the underlying system at all, and the primary reason I'm moving back to Android. Can't let some shit tech company dictate how I use my own devices file system, or what apps I can and can't install on it.

I really lost my shit when Firefox downloaded some Belfort & Lupin subtitles and I could not for the fucking live of me find them.

Turns out it put them in the "Movies" folder instead of "Downloads" where it actually put the corresponding video files.

sounds like your pitiful mind cant understand the unix file oriented philosophy and you should stay 10 feet away from all information technology /sarcasm
- Technology and sarcasm?!?!
- now look here you little... oh actually it would be nice to get away from tech honestly......
- It has very little to do with unix philosophy

Firefox: oh you just saved 3 files to a folder, allow me to save the next one to a folder you haven't downloaded anything to in months.

Thank the allmaker for KDE recent files.

Thank the allmaker for KDE recent files.
and GNOME recent files. I believe its even an XDG FreeDesktop spec.
damn its 23 Years old: https://specifications.freedesktop.org/recent-files-spec/latest/

/storage/emulated/0/

It used to be so much simpler. I remember having a Galaxy S3 and whenever I saved a file I knew exactly where it went. There was a file explorer built in, and downloads went to the downloads folder.

Is that not how it still works? When I download a file, it either goes straight to the Downloads folder, or to an app-specific subfolder within Downloads. And there's a Files app that lets you go through the file system (although I'm sure there are some system folders that aren't accessible without rooting). I don't think I've ever been confused about where a file is saved.
- cc @RedFrank24@lemmy.world
  i think there’s lots of different flavors of android or something, such that different phones handle the user-facing file system totally differently. it might also be that nicer phones the devs put more effort into making UX have a more forgiving learning curve but because android isn’t truly open source those developments are inaccessible to other users
- Thats my experience too.
That was Samsung doing the work of dumbing things down for you. Stock Android has always been fast and loose with the locality of saved files. Especially if you are doing anything with an image processing app. They tend to make their own dump folders and don't bother telling you that they e made them in their own directory under the .data folder or someplace in .bin
- You say 'dumbing things down' I say 'that's kinda condescending talk that implies that anything else isn't shut when it clearly is'
My 2022 android still has a file explorer. But it seems to randomly drop files all over into multiple download folders it created
Literally exactly how it still works.

This is a real problem with young people coming into the office. They don't know how to navigate a file system. They've never had to do it.

No, it's a file system issue. It randomly makes folders and decides where to put things. A photo could be in the dcim folder, a photos folder on my outside card or a photos. It may or may not be in recents.
- I'm saying that people who have grown up in the world of smartphones and apps are used to files just going into the ether and the app knowing where it is, and they never learned how to navigate a file system.
I suppose those are the same people who make a full screen screenshot in order to share a picture.
- No, they're taking a picture of the screen with their phone.

Android? you mean iphone maybe. i can directly access the file directory of Android both from an app or from my PC with a USB connection.

That file directory is a hot mess, though.
- yeah, i figure I'd kill myself if my PC was structured like that. but for a phone it does the job and if you need something it's not that hard to find it really.

I find it funny that there's a bunch of people here who know how to use android's file system. Like, of course the Linux nerds figured out how to use it (and I love you all the more for it)

It's one of the most frustrating things ever. Anyone acting like navigating Android's files is anything similar to navigating any desktop computer's files needs some perspective. "You said this is difficult, but for me it's easy, therefore it's actually easy."
Varies a ton between apps, some use private app storage on Android too (only accessible with root) or in appdata storage (restricted to system apps), or in scattered folders under the regular "user data" folders (easiest by far)
Bonus points if you have an SD card, double bonus points if you manage to have 2 of them, because then you have multiple copies of these standard user data folders
- MediaStore recreating the standard Android library folder layout on my SD card no matter how many times I deleted them was infuriating.

Yeah, it can be hard to find files sometimes. File Navigator solves this problem perfectly.

Solid Explorer has always been my go to. I never understood why basic file explorer functions essentially required the use of a separate app, but it's functionality is superb and the now-baked-in-but-terrible file explorer in android can never hope to match it.
- If you think about it, its always a separate app. WIndows Explorer is an app and so is Dolphin on KDE. ls is an app.
  Android just has a bit of an identity problem with how to present files. Considering its made for the most common denominator, and everything revolves around 'apps' now, the concept of files, what they are and what they do is new to many. Most people wont even consider the photo they took is a file. Its a photo, not a file, what are you talking about?. So I'm not surprised the representation of files is on the lower priority list.
  I'm old school, I want to know where everything is in the file system and this part of android messes with me.
I prefer Material Files.
- Yeah, I feel you on that. It's my go to file manager as well.

Unfortunately this also applies to Flatpak software in Linux. That's one area where distros really need to focus on improving usability.

Maybe flatpack should do a better job of exporting the application data into the user's home.
You can't insist on sandboxing the applications and expect them to export the data on a main user directory.

dont forget on some phones OS, you can actually pick and choose the download location. After you downloaded though, the files arent there....

Had to question my sanity many times....

I thought I was losing it because this app wanted to save things to a "downloads" folder. Only to find out it saves it in something like
documents/app name/downloads Instead of
Downloads/

For real? Never used Android, but isn’t it built on Linux? It doesn’t use the same path /home/username/Downloads?

It does not, but on all of the Android devices I've used there's simply a "downloads" folder in the root location (or what is exposed to the user as root location, anyway) where downloads go by default. From web browsers, at least.
The problem is that where things are saved is more or less up to the developer of the app in question, and sometimes they make some very nonsensical choices. The app could create a folder for itself in root, or it could create a folder for itself in "documents," or it could simply park things in one of the preexisting userspace folders. Or it could bury the file it just created in /Android/data/com.appname.fd6bca3/files/0/dl/, and it sure as shit won't tell you nor give you the option to put it anywhere else.
- Get a file explorer. Mine has a "recent" tab where all the new stuff is. I can also move or copy files easily. Vanilla explorer is not very good but it does have the basics covered. It is annoying not to have a system-wide download dialog though.
  I suspect part of why google's app is subpar is to promote their cloud storage.
It's built on a , by now very modified and incompatible, Linux kernel. But not a GNU userland at all.
- Yeah, fuck Android. PostmarketOS is my new best friend.
- It’s built on a , by now very modified and incompatible, Linux kernel.
  Which is also forked again by various phone manufacturers that make their own modifications on top of it.
Don't know what this meme is about.
Everything I download is in my downloads folder. Good luck finding the downloads folder path in IOS.
- That was a problem for years. Apple didn’t make the Files app to navigate the filesystem until 2017. It’s fine now, but it was absurd for sure.
It's basically a jvm that runs on the Linux kernel.
It doesn’t use the same path /home/username/Downloads?
Same as what? That isn't a default path for anything in Linux either. It's a convention that browser follows though, on Windows and Mac too.

Android is pretty bad in many regards

But it has the best, most human-friendly user interface ever. Especially on tablets

And I’m ready to die on that hill xD

I will only grant that, assuming we are only looking at current popular smartphone OS's ... and you turn off gestures
- Man I hate gestures. I'd happily use a phone twice as thick if it meant a real keyboard with real function buttons. (I have large hands and blunt fingers, little touchpad keyboard is a nightmare and there's no easy way to attach a stylus of comfortable size)
- and you turn off gestures
  Yeah, gestures are horrible
  assuming we are only looking at current popular smartphone OS's
  I was speaking of every interface to navigate a computer for general use. What would you consider to be the best in that regard ?

There's a "recent files" list in most file managers

Many have gone looking. Few have returned.

File manager > Recent files

literally I've had files that file manager cannot see or interact with at all. I think they always came from termux, which is what I used to unzip zip files. Definitely in the right directory but just plain invisible to file manager and other apps.
Mes fichiers » fichiers récent
For any francos looking for this application.
Recent files > move file where you want itfrom there
Seriously, this thread has me very confused about how a social media platform seemingly inundated with nerds can't open a file manager (which often comes pre-installed) to find a downloads folder.
- It was a bigger problem when they first instituted private app storage and limited apps access to other apps data.
  Eg. My dashcam app had an export button. The files went into that apps private storage which was unavailable to non-root file explorers even with permissions. The app had to change significantly.
  Everything's more or less playing well together now but people still have PTSD.

That's an interesting point about OneDrive automatically backing up folders. It reminds me of the time I was messing around with a weird game concept, something like a chicken jockey clicker, and I accidentally saved all the game files to a cloud folder without realizing it. Took forever to sort out the mess.

For me Files shows recent files right on top as the first thing you see when you open the app. X-Plore has a Recent Files section too. Moreover most apps that save something usually show a toast with the file/folder path when done. I don't know what you're talking about.

Beeing able to access the file doest mean you know where it is. What happens if that file isnt recent any more? Android hides the file system from the user. "Recent files" is a prime example of that.

I use a little app called X-plore. Gives me treed lists of folder contents and allows moving, copying, and deleting stuff.

Total Commander with LAN, FTP and WebDAV Plugin enabled is really useful (if you're using Android)

When I say monkey you say blunt.

Monkey!

Blunt!

Go Zip!

must be hard to find the download folder

the upload widget when trying to find that PDF you just saved

i wrote a whole comment but deleted it this comment explains better https://programming.dev/comment/17202550

I'm pretty sure this is google chrome issue. When I use Samsung Internet, I can choose the download location

Not a fan of google products, but I can't fathom using the phone's stock browser. Is it … good?
- It's good, I mainly use Samsung browser, although use google search widget will default to use chrome, so basically I use both

How is you not even aware of what a file system is LMAO 🤣

I swear to God, how is it possible that people who can access the fediverse have such trouble finding a download folder.

It's like their brains fold instantly at the thought of searching through it.

"Hurr durr, where file"

In the downloads folder

My brother in Christ, please open the fucking file explorer

This is you, it's how you look like:

That's the entire point of the post, my guy. Some apps use the Downloads folder. Some use their own. Some use a folder you set a year ago when you first got the app but don't remember anymore.
The interface abstracts away from the actual file system so finding a file becomes guesswork. Doubly so if you then want to use the downloaded file in a different app that also doesn't give access to the file system.
- perhaps OP thinks you're a goof if you don't invest in a proprietary software stack.