The truth about organic milk: cows are suffering on even the most “humane” dairy farms
Cows are suffering on even the most “humane” dairy farms.
That's not worldnews. US farms wouldn't be legal in EU. Most EU farms wouldn't be legal here (Swiss). California is not the world.
The US is the 2nd largest milk producer on the planet...and that's only IF you count the EU as a single entity. Otherwise, it's 1st. Also, the largest economy on the planet. Things that happen in America matter elsewhere.
While that may be true, the title and article act as if the US is the world, as if "the most humane dairy farms" in the US are the most humane dairy farms in the world, which is clearly not even remotely close to the truth.
It might be the 2nd largest milk producing country, but they couldn't sell the milk in the EU due to the unethical and unhygienic way it's produced. That's OP's point
I'm pissed off that when I move out of the USA because it's turned into a fucking nightmare, I'll still be affected by things happening in the USA. The outsized effect that it has makes me mad.
Not trynna be the token vegan/health nut - just wanted to share:
I fuck with oatmilk- it’s pretty fuckin good for what it is and it’s bomb in some cereal. Don’t gotta cut out milk but maybe instead of 2 gallons you do one of each or somethin idk
The problem is that dairy subsides make cow milk less expensive than it should be. Those subsidies should be reallocated to environmentally-friendly alternatives. The average shopper at the store is going to look at the price tags and pick the one that's like half the cost.
I am also simultaneously asking myself if prices for oatmilk are fair. Where I live the cheapest option is 1€ for a liter. But if you ever made oatmilk by yourself, you know how cheap it is do do it at home. I know I'm just lazy as f*, so I am not doing it and therefore should not rant. But I am really curious what's behind this pricing, other than higher tax than on milk.
Yeah that’s always the tricky bit with making “change” - not everybody can afford it, but those who can should keep that in mind and maybe bump a bit more for those who can’t
Man, nut milks (hah) and oat milk are fantastic. I'm not vegan, but I absolutely support reducing the animal products you consume. Milk is a big deal for me, and while they don't always quite satisfy in the same way, animal milk alternatives are pretty awesome.
The fact that people are waving this hard for oatmilk, shows me that there must be a genetical component of people, who can't taste certain elements of oatmilk. For me it it tastes watery, like even below 1,5% fat and it smells unpleasant, with a subtile kind of moldy/rotten in it. I drink about a liter of milk every day and I would not want that even in my coffee, let alone pure or in my cornflakes.
This shouldn't mean people shouldn't try or even like oatmilk, but it's no replacement for me, not even close.
Drinking a litre of milk every day can't be healthy. It causes osteoporosis and can raise your cholesterol levels.
https://iphysio.io/osteoporosis/
Do as you want but for everyone reading this thread, I thought it was a good resource to add. And also keep in mind, the animal agriculture lobby is huge and they publish biased counter studies with questionable methods.
Smell and taste seems to very a lot between people. I'm not even surprised.
I love oat milk, personally.
I think a lot of people who switch to non-dairy milk never really liked to drink milk in the first place. It was easy for them to switch. I had to cut dairy when I had a baby with a milk allergy and it was so hard. None of the milk alternatives taste anything like cow milk. I hated all of them. Vegan cheese is pretty terrible, too. Even the most expensive fancy cashew ones taste significantly worse than the cheapest cow milk cheese. I did like Daiya's smoked gouda and nutritional yeast is pretty good, but other than that I was so glad to have cow milk back in my diet after a year of being dairy-free. I like meat alternatives but dairy alternatives are just bad. I hope science figures it out.
That baby with the dairy allergy outgrew the allergy but still prefers oat milk.
I find it really depends on the brand. I have no idea what the differences really are (or even how it's made in the first place) but in my experience around half are as you describe and half are delicious
That’s quite a logic leap there if I’m being honest.
I grey up drinking whole milk and having 2-3 glasses a day, I love milk.
I buy the purple Silk brand that has the extra protein in it (red ribbon printed on the carton) and I’m telling you it’s gas in cereal. By itself, it’s still not whole milk - don’t get me wrong, it’s just 30x less watery than almond milk was but maybe the protein one is thicker or something idk.
Personally I prefer soy milk since it generally requires the least resources and also has the highest amount of bioavailable protein.
Oat is pretty good though.
I didn't like soy milk at all when I was younger (like a teenager). It had a weird aftertaste and texture. I don't know if it has changed since then or not, but now I also find it generally the tastiest.
I also use organic soy milk (since it is usually the only type that doesn't have gums or other ingredients....just soybeans and water) to make really simple plain yogurt too. I just break open a probiotic capsule or two into a 1qt tetrapak bottle, shake it up really good, divy up into 1c mason jars, and run the Instant Pot Yogurt setting for 15-16 hours.
That yogurt gets made into parfaits or overnight oats (with some date syrup if I can't find it...or just maple syrup to sweeten). Sometimes I'll even make a really good soft serve frozen yogurt (mix 1 part sugar to 4 parts yogurt, freeze 6+ hours, put it in a good blender, add fruit or vanilla or cocoa (or all!) as desired.
Mmm I sorta agree with you but soy milk and soy plantations in general (or whatever the proper name is for a farm of soybeans) definitely contribute to deforestation it takes a lot of land to turn out enough product
Here’s a quick mention in a posting I found - I’m sure there are some studies out there if you’re interested
https://bastyr.edu/about/news/which-milk-alternative-most-eco-friendly
I agree. Oatmilk is my go to, especially if I'm mixing it with something. I find the flavors blend better
i went vegetarian a few months ago and ive been losing weight and muscle like crazy. i haven't figured out how to maintain it. everything tastes good though
It’s really tough. There’s a lot we’re still learning about the gut and nutrient absorption- but as long as we protect science, we can expect improvements.
The work with gene editing and growing meats and whatnot has been a long time coming - stay optimistic, stay curious! ❤️
Not at all, pump the f--- out of that sh--, it's pretty cheap to manufacture and once economies of scale take over it will become way cheaper.
Just look out that oat is a carb. If you're having oat milk with cereal then you're having carb with carb.
This is another straw on the camels back to svrewing up your sugar levels and potentially giving you diabetes.
I'm no super healthy guy, but a friend of mine had this issue where they were on the high glucose side due to their diet, this was one of the things they needed to cut out.
Almond milk I think was the better alternative.
Cows need to be pregnant to produce milk so dairy cows are artificially inseminated throughout most of their lives.
They don't tell you this in school.
Not only that but the calves would require a large percentage of that milk, and so a byproduct of dairy farms is often veal, at least for the male calves.
Then after only 4-5 years of this they are slaughtered because the milk production begins to diminish.
It's obvious but blew my mind when I was told that
They do tell it in school. What is meat. Vegan vegetarian.... Ethical working with animals ... 11-12 year old classes btw.
I don't remember ever getting a class like that, and if they tried to put one in they'd invite the considerably scary wrath of the farmers.
I don't remember any of that from school.
I got one year of food wheel followed by 11 of food pyramid, and that was the extent of diet and nutrition.
That depends on your school, and when you went there. Many of us did not learn any of this.
Was thinking "Oh shit now I have to become vegan", but the article is paywalled so I didn't have to go on the guilt trip.
Lol. That's how it goes.
Archive link because paywall
Humane meat and dairy is yuppie bullshit.
Why is it bullshit to not want your food to cause unnecessary suffering? If I have the choice of eating a burger from a cow that suffered it's whole life or one that was treated well, why would I not choose less suffering?
Oh! You're one of those who things we should all be vegan...not gonna happen for so so many reasons, so why not compromise and reduce suffering in the world?
Life eats life, that's how it works. Organisms evolved to eat meat are not inherently inhumane for following their biological imperative. Our factory farming system IS inhumane in that it causes unnecessary suffering, but that's a result of the scale of operations and our economic system.
The acidity of our stomach alone is clear evidence we are evolved to eat meat, combine that with our need for B12, our teeth, length of intestines relative to other herbivores, omnivores, and carnivores puts the nail in the coffin for the idea that we are not meant to eat meat.
The acidity of our stomach alone is clear evidence we are evolved to eat meat, combine that with our need for B12, our teeth, length of intestines relative to other herbivores, omnivores, and carnivores puts the nail in the coffin for the idea that we are not meant to eat meat.
You wear shoes, statistically you probably wear glasses or contacts, all of us have back problems as we ags the idea that we should do what our body evolved to is honestly kinda ludicrous. I mean heck, we are talking through wifi, wires and electricity. We both drive a car to get food through major distribution chains. Nothing in our lives is natural.
Take some damn b12 supplements, the overwhelming majority of people, vegans and carnist alike, have a deficiency anyways.
Life eats life, that's how it works.
Yeah, but beans don't have a brain, nerve endings or a nervous system. Sure they are alive, but it's intellectual dishonest to think that a pigs and beans interact with the world in the same way. So yes, life eats life, but my life sustaining food doesn't feel pain. It has for over a decade now.
Like, I feel you should read the article? The idea that you can kill something ethically is cognitive dissonance.
There's no way to sugarcoat it: in order to extract milk you must r--- the cow and then kill its baby, then if you don't milk them, they die.
The treatment of animals is so bad that b-------ty laws have literally failed to pass because they would have criminalized the whole industry, and that's not even to mention the times when people who call out overt, malicious abuse suffer more consequences than the ones doing it.
Basically; the sooner we shut the system down the better. It's unsustainable and only being held together by subsidies anyway.
From personal observation, non-meat farm animals are lean, sinewy and taste like shit. I'm not actually sure what they do with the calves but it's not growing them as normal meat cows.
Also, how does eating the corpse make killing more (or less) okay?
This is true.
Cows need to be pregnant to produce milk, so dairy cows are artificially inseminated throughout most of their lives.
Rape the cow and kill the baby? Lol what planet are you on? Most farms have a bull.. and "killing the baby", you mean like later in life to eat?
If you don't milk them they die? No.. They stop producing milk
A lot of baby cows are just straight up kidnapped from mom and killed. No way around that. Some are raised to adulthood, but on most dairy operations the kidnapping still happens even then, otherwise the calf ends up drinking the farmer's 'product' and cutting into profits. Look up footage of a calf being taken from its mom in this process. Absolutely fucking devastating.
The denial runs deep
Approximately 74% of pregnancies on US dairy farms are attributable to artificial insemination USDA, 2014
What happens if you don’t milk a dairy cow?
Not milking a dairy cow, can cause a lot of problems. A dairy cow will produce about 8 gallons or 30 litres a day. Adding to the problem of not milking is the missing calf, as they are normally kept separately to ensure higher milk yields.
If you stop milking this cow altogether, milk production will continue until the pressure starts to build up. This process normally starts a dry up phase, which will prevent the cow from producing more milk.
Because of modern breeding practices, it’s impossible for dairy cows to dry up naturally in a high production phase before facing serious problems. As, extending this phase increase the milk output of a cow, making it more profitable to keep this state as long as possible.
For those cows, stopping to milk them will cause the udder to increase is size until it can not expand any further. This cow will be in serious pain at this point. Caused by the enormous size of the udder it will also be in the way of everyday activities, preventing the cow from properly standing, sitting or laying.
If pressure still isn’t released then the udder can rupture or get infected. Ultimately leading to the death of the cow, if she is not treated and pressure is released.
https://farmityourself.com/what-happens-if-you-dont-milk-cows/
The problem is that one side is running on facts, the other side is running on "nuh-uh I like things the way they are"s
From personal observation, non-meat farm animals are lean, sinewy and taste like shit. I’m not actually sure what they do with the calves but it’s not growing them as normal meat cows.
Also, how does eating the corpse make killing more (or less) okay?
I haven’t seen any mentions of soy milk in this thread. I have it unsweetened with some fruit Müsli and even in coffee/tea and I’m good to go
My personal opinion is that soy milk tastes like grass... I've tried it in coffee, alone, on cereal, but I just can't avoid feeling like someone dumped a handful of freshly cut grass in...
Almond is pretty good on it's own, but in coffee it tastes like marzipan... It's not bad, but not the taste I want in my coffee.
Oat is what tastes most like cow's milk to me.
I second oat milk. Not watery like soy or almond milk. The other problem with almond milk is the insane amount of water that it takes to grow almonds.
Huh, yeah, it totally does taste like grass. Kinda.
I still drink it tho 💪
I'm partial to oat milk myself. Vanilla unsweetened is refreshing.
Reminded me of Raw Milk.
I tried hard to switch to almond/oat milk but the crazy thing is that it expires much more quickly than whole milk. So it was defeating the purpose because I wasn’t drinking it fast enough and ended up wasting a ton of it. Wish they’d make them in smaller jugs or whatever.
I'm genuinely confused by this statement. Plant based milk lasts SUBSTANTIALITY longer than cows milk. I can leave it in my fridge for weeks, maybe a month and its still good. I legit have not ever looked at an expiry date since switching to soy milk.
That's not even to mention that you can buy them in unrefrigerated, shelf stable cartons. It's longer lasting in every imaginable way.
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I thought the same but once you open the carton it’s 7 days from the date you open it. At least that was the case with almond milk. I thought they lasted a lot longer especially since they are shelf stable etc. I had a ton of black mold on and around the rim of my almond milk well before the expiration date and that is because I’m fine print it says date of expiration is 7 days after opening.
My family makes almond milk with our blender. It's actually quite easy and not as expensive as buying the carton or gallon. It's really just almonds and water (and salt or vanilla if you're into other flavors).
Interesting I will have to try this!
Don't know where you are from but here there's a brand called Earth's Own that makes a Barista Oat Milk which is my favorite. The box is around 900ml and it is the best tasting oat milk I've ever had and it is also made to steam well when making drinks.
...milk isn't even necessary for us after we are no longer toddlers...wtf? I know it's necessary for desserts but are people really drinking milk voluntarily in their daily lives as adults or teenagers?
Yeah who needs checks notes. The cheapest source of great macro vitamins in the store???
You fucking anti milk clowns are so fucking stupid.
Milk is a super food that is only supplanted IMHO by kefir. That shit is incredible.
I get both my whole milk and kefir from local farms. One is in town, and the other is only about 15 miles away. It's the freshest, most delicious milk I've ever had and I can hardly stomach the store bought stuff anymore.
Imagine drinking milk from something that can't consent smdh 😞
This one is going down in the "shit takes of the century" list
Decade ;)
Internet vegans need to stop telling me to be unhealthy and go all in on fucking up the dairy industry. The average person can see it's horrific, how hard could it be to get a big fucking win without getting normal people offside?
I don't understand your comment. Not vegan here but I try to eat vegan most of the time. I think just trying to consume less is already a huge deal.
