If everyone had access to healthcare the net benefit of treating the mental illness and other disabilities holding them back would easily cover the cost of the healthcare itself.
If everyone had access to healthcare the net benefit of treating the mental illness and other disabilities holding them back would easily cover the cost of the healthcare itself.
the math has already been done. we pay more for less care in the united states than places with universal health care.
health insurance companies only profit by denying claims. profit only comes when humans suffer.
This is the root of it.
Piled on top of that are layers upon layers of middlemen rent-seekers. The amount of parasitic corporate bullshit that goes on behind the scenes whenever you go to the pharmacy to pick up a prescription would blow most people's minds.
The good news is, awareness is growing, and there are a few good actors in government trying to do something about it. It's very much an uphill battle, though.
The suffering keeps the working class busy.
Keeps them knee capped.
And hospitals. No one ever takes into account the fact that hospitals charge outrageous and arbitrary fees for services.
Congratulations, you just figured out how healthcare works in the rest of developed countries
Yup. Everything is better when everyone is doing better. It’s weirdly simple.
And also in some of the non developed countries (Cuba, Brazil)
"Cuba is such a shit hole."
Consistently has some of the best doctors. Also, healthcare workers from Kenya? Some of the best in the world.
I'm just speaking from personal experience. If I was given adequate health care 20 years earlier there is no telling how different my life may have been. Instead I had to achieve impossible feats to get insurance which then made those seemingly impossible things trivial.
Its so weird living in a country where healthcare is a right, and seeing how E everyone in USA is against public healthcare until their insurance stops covering expenses.
And preventive medicine makes us live healthier for longer, making sure we can keep sustaining the system and reduce the amount of more complex and expensive care needed.
That would be logical and we don't do that here.
Stop that.Whether I agree with you depends on whether "here" means "lemmy" or "this country."
Yesn't.
Entrepreneurs and small business would benefit tremendously. More people could follow their ideas and dreams as small business owners and entrepreneurs, and boost economic output and innovation. All are hindered by this surfdom.
I had my own business and my health insurance was crazy expensive and had a terribly high deductible. Ultimately I went back to being an employee. Then back to contracting with terrible excuse for health care. The compay I’m contracting for will lose me as soon as I land a job with good healthcare, so they’re effected too and they’re not small.
Anyone who is not for universal healthcare is anti-small business, the economy, the countries’ innovation and security in the global economy, and the people.
Same applies to housing the homeless, but benefiting society isn't the point. It is not enough to win, someone else must also lose.
Welcome to Capitalism where you have to pay for basic human rights.
We have health care in Canada yet still lots of street homeless people. They aren’t getting adequate care at all, yet the cost of caring for them exceeds the average person by many times. Many of them are on a first name basis with all the paramedics and other first responders due to how often they’re taken to the emergency room.
Ok, but, I never said universal healthcare would solve homelessness. In America we have the same cost except we've made it illegal to be homeless and pay to keep them in prison.
Well… that just sounds like socialism to me; so now we’re friends.
How does that help the shareholders gain more wealth to hoard though?
Pay them with publics funds but give them no liability and no pricing oversight
Like we do in Canada (Ontario) for regular healthcare
Yes, that’s how it works in many countries.
Not having preventive health care if like having a car, hear it make too many strange noises and not fixing it until it breaks and you end up on the side of the road upside down. You "didn't spend money" in minor fixings but you end up paying a lot more.
Thanks for reminding me about all the stuff that needs fixing on my car.
As someone in the final stages of a masters degree in healthcare management and economics:
Almost. It doesn't entirely cover the costs (at least from the data we have available worldwide, which is somewhat insufficient) but a focus on mental health(which always includes workers rights, women's rights and a few more social issues that create long term health problems on a massive scale) and prophylaxis in general is FAR cheaper than what most industrial nations currently do.
We do have a few issues that are not addressed in these concepts (e.g. end of life care and costs associated with that, new types of personalised medication, accessibility in rural areas,etc.) that still make a healthcare system like that something society has to pay for...But it does improve things massively, especially the quality of life of people that are not the actual patients.
That's how you can see the true nature of the system. It isn't designed to maximize production, it is designed to subordinate production.
Imagine how much we could save on policing if we didn't have outbreaks of mental health issues and shootings.
Just kidding, don't think about that, back the blue. /s
I bet the benefit of free school lunches would also pay for itself. And there's been studies that show that funding early childhood education has a huge ROI.
But that's not how things work here.
Yeah, but it wont pay back within the quarter.
how are we going to know we're better than other people though, this is the most important thing.
Same thing with crime and basic needs. It costs less to give people housing, food, etc, than to staff the police and infrastructure for jails. Once you realize that, you realize it's not about the cost. It's about the cruelty.
I'm just here to agree. Also, people could stop self diagnosing, which is a whole other thing.
TBH the bigger problem is, even if we did have full funding, we just don't have the necessary amount of trained physicians. There would still be a backlog.
Did you just make a case for free college? I think you did.
I don't know because I'm in the US, but does universal healthcare in other countries cover autism-related therapies and care such as ABA, occupational and speech at the rates recommend by docs (our docs recommended 20+ hours/week - or roughly the cost of $100k/year)? And is that factored into the equation?
I haven't seen the official modeling, just assumptions around the internet. But back of the napkin math suggests that appropriate autism care alone could be quite high: 1/36 of the 341,500,000 American residents have autism. Assuming 15% need care in the range of $100k, would be somewhere around $138b/year for just autism care. Does that seem in line with what you are thinking? Either way, are you able to point me to some of the modeling you have found? I'd love to learn more about how it tactically works.
Where’s your math coming from? There’s a ton of folks on the spectrum that don’t need assistance at all.
I'm just doing some simple deductive reasoning. If a person who suffers from a disability receives life changing care and are able to rejoin the workforce you have taken someone who would otherwise cost tax payers and have added an income stream to the tax pool. Similarly you may provide care to people who aren't necessarily disabled but have no means to get a life changing diagnosis and medication which allows them to complete higher education.
For every person you take out of the prison system and put into the workforce you are freeing up resources while also creating resources.
Man, I wish the hundreds of thousands of dollars of care we got positioned my kids into the workforce. Our reality is that all that while the care did help and make their lives much better - it won't translate into productivity or self sufficiency. 🙁 I am super worried that will practically mean a universal healthcare system in the US limits disability care because it isn't deemed as having a good enough ROI.