Skip Navigation
Asklemmy @lemmy.ml
mjsaber @lemmy.blahaj.zone

What do you do when people don't care?

I'm dumbstruck as to what to do. The US is building literal concentration camps, and none of my co-workers care at all.

In fairness, I work in healthcare with an almost exclusively cishet white population who are financially well off.

Many of them espouse to be Christians, and no one cares at all that the American government is following the exact playbook from Nazi Germany.

What do you do? How do you make people care before it's too late?

138 comments

  • I've never done something on the scale I'm describing, so this is mostly just speculation, but I hope it could be useful.

    First of all, find the people who do care. Talk with them. Make a local antifascist group in a secure messenger (Matrix/XMPP, or at the very least Signal), or join an existing org that you disagree with the least (don't be afraid of the word "socialist" if you stumble upon them). Do not discuss anything illegal, as it could spell trouble for everyone - you live in an (increasingly) authoritarian country with a wide range of tools to repress you. Keeping it legal at least makes it less likely.

    Now that you have a support network, you can start reaching out. Until/unless your organization gains serious traction, unite over common goals instead of squabbling over your differences. DO NOT guilt anyone for being financially well off, voting for the wrong candidate, believing in stupid things, etc. Find people who are somewhat unhappy or unsure about concentration camps. Try convincing them that concentration camps are bad - it probably would be easier if they are on the fence already or if they are being unjustly treated themselves. Show compassion. Do not be condescending or use the words that may trigger them (Nazism, etc), instead appeal to humanity and empathy to specific people who are being repressed. Bring some examples of unjust repression with you. Do not overdo it - you don't (yet) have to agree on anything except that these concentration camps are bad. Propose to do something together - it can be small at first, like calling your representative or organizing a picket - common action builds connections and mutual understanding.

  • You don't.

    A large swath of Americans have made it clear they don't care to pay attention and won't care until it personally affects them.

    So we're simply going to have to watch our nation decline until the majority of Americans have personally been affected. Then we'll begin a long, difficult path to gaining back what we lost, just to get back to where we were before the decline happened. Then we'll be happy to be back in the same shitty situation we were before and probably let things slide back into a decline again.

    Americans are stupid. And there's nothing you can do to change that.

  • I sometimes wonder is Trump does a lot of crazy sounding shit to make people who speak against him sound insane.

  • Something I've had to accept over the course of my life is that the vast majority of humans will passively accept anything as long as they feel like there's something they can do to not be killed. Only when it feels out of control whether they might be killed will the majority of people feel the need to act and no sooner. There has never been any changing this. Fortunately the vast majority of people are not needed to affect positive change. People who care need to set the tone and followers will follow as they do. Your efforts would be better served among people actively resisting or building structures that benefit people.

  • I had some very similar feelings after the 2020 election cycle and COVID stuff. This VSauce video came out around the same time and, unironically I guess, helped convince me of some stuff I'd started to realize with regards to changing people's minds. https://youtu.be/_ArVh3Cj9rw

  • People talking about people about concentration camps after Democrats have supported a genocide campaign in a concentration camp for more than a year.

    You can tell OP does not believe any person outside of America is human.

  • I spend a good amount of energy trying to explain the merits of Marxism-Leninism and Leftism in general on Lemmy (and IRL, though that's much trickier). Ultimately, you can't make someone care. You can't convince people of something they choose not to want to believe, either, no matter how much evidence you throw at them. Roderic Day wrote a great article titled Masses, Elites, and Rebels: The Theory of "Brainwashing" that perfectly encapsulates this process. People license themselves to believe whatever it is that they believe benefits themselves, regardless of evidence or empathy.

    What you can do, however, is explain the merits of that which you believe in, and this is far more effective with people already targeted by the current system. Those closest to the edge, those radicalized by their conditions but not yet organized or versed in theory, are the perfect people to talk to. The effort required to gain an ally in that sense is far less than someone who is convinced that the system is fine, but just needs a little tweaking. Building strength through organization helps legitimize your positions and expands the circle, so to speak, by moving the "line of radicalization" further. Person A, who believes the system is fine but needs tweaks, goes from comfortably mainstream into the new line of radicalization, one step away from working to supplant the system, when those who were radicalized near them organize.

    Further still, as conditions deteriorate, more people are impacted and more people are radicalized. This is both good and bad, bad in the sense that more are affected by the evils in society to a greater degree, but with the good being further chance of organization.

    Just my 2 cents as someone who has spoken with many different people about Marxism.

  • The first thing I would ask is, have you made any attempts to really understand what motivates them and why they believe as they do? Given your flippant dismissal of their belief systems, I suspect you have just mentally bucketed them and, instead of really trying to understand them, you fall back on your per-conceived notions of what you think they believe. Without that understanding, you will never be able to "make people care", because you are not treating them as fully formed people with their own beliefs and priorities. You expect that, if you just yell at them loudly enough, they will come around. They won't and, if anything, they will just dig their heels in further. To them, you're this guy:

    Not everyone has the same priorities you do. What you see as "the most important thing in the world" may fall much further down the list for someone else. They may not even see it in the same framing you do. Maybe they do care about your thing, but they have their own "most important thing" and if your thing and their thing are in contention, they are going to pick their thing. This is part of the reason we have politics in the first place, once you start dealing with other people and trying to decide what and how things should be prioritized and run, you are going to run into differing beliefs and priorities. It's why most government polices generally suck and don't get everything done. Because those policies are the result of compromise between people with different and often competing priorities. And yes, it may be that some of those other priorities come from bad information, though more often they will come from radically different base beliefs. And not understanding what those beliefs actually are means that you will not have any sort of basis for convincing them of anything.

    Changing peoples' minds is hard. But, it starts from a place of understanding people and not dismissing their beliefs. Step back from your outrage for a moment and try to really get in their heads. You may not agree with their position, but you need to understand how they got there before you have any chance of getting them out of it. And, maybe you can't. It may just be that they have some foundational beliefs which are completely at odds with what you want to convince them of. But, if you know and understand that, it becomes much easier to walk away from the situation and not waste time and energy on a hopeless fight. And while it feels good to yell at people, that basically never works and only serves to push them further away.

    • Most of the folks I talk to hear agree with me that things are going wrong, or that x,y, or z is a problem, but not enough to do anything about it. I have heard a few times that, " I want to do something, but I have to protect myself."

      • Most of the folks I talk to hear agree with me that things are going wrong

        That's not surprising, though be careful on what the definition of "going wrong" is. For example, Emerson College recently put out the results of some polling part of which found that 67% of voters think the US is on the wrong track. It's highly likely that 67% includes voters from all over the political map. But, while both a hardcore Trump/MAGA voter and a Bernie Bro voter might each say that the US is on the "wrong track", we'd probably have trouble getting those two voters to reconcile on the color of the sky, let alone what the "right track" would be. Also, be wary of coworkers who actually just want to be left alone and will "go along to get along". They will tacitly nod and agree with just about anything, so long as you go away and let them get back to work.

        or that x,y, or z is a problem, but not enough to do anything about it.

        Ok, but what is the ask? What are you expecting them to do? And why do you believe that they should be the ones doing it? Again, going back to my previous comment:
        Maybe they do care about your thing, but they have their own “most important thing” and if your thing and their thing are in contention, they are going to pick their thing.

        You may view things as so bad that everyone should be out in the streets protesting 24x7. They may not see it that way. They may put "protecting themselves" at a higher priority than protesting whatever it is you are upset about. This might be especially true if they have families to care for and that can drastically change how people prioritize things.

        Once again, I'd go back to understanding their beliefs and priorities. Why won't they do the thing you want them to do? It probably comes down to those beliefs and priorities being more important to them than whatever it is you are promoting. And again, I would note your complete dismissal of their point of view. They have given you some insight as to why they aren't taking action:
        " I want to do something, but I have to protect myself."

        It's clear they prioritize their personal well-being over the perceived value of whatever you are asking them to do. Why is that? What is it that you are asking them to do that they see it as risky? If your goal is to organize something, can you work to provide them the perceived safety that would get them over that hump? Do they have other issues and their answer is just a proxy to avoid an argument? I'm afraid I'm just repeating myself here; but, you need to really understand them if you want them to change their minds.

      • So they do care, just not enough? What should they be doing about it?

  • I care, you care, and many of us here on lemmy care. We should work on how to coordinate ourselves together rather than try to change minds.

    I've tried, a lot, to change minds. I started with the most difficult person, and recently a new hire at work is kinda centrist-left and I tried to convince him. No matter whether it's a nazi you're talking to (ahem.. the first one) or a liberal, minds can only change themselves. They have to want it, you cannot hack their brain and override it.

    I gave up, because even the people who are closest to me politically seem to move further to the right when faced with uncomfortable reality. They don't engage with icky thoughts like "What if police killed an innocent man?". They rationalize it to keep their comfort zone intact. "Well, if they just followed police instructions..." blissfully unaware of many cases like Daniel Shaver.

    You point to an example that breaks their rationalization, and they will diminish it. "Oh that cop made a mistake". Point to many examples and they suddenly got to go wash their hair. People's psyche protects them from stress.

    And that is the default mindset in this society. Avoidance of discomfort and inconvenience. Fear of the unknown. They want their life to be neat and happy and to all make sense. They don't appreciate it when someone tries to take that away from them.

    Do you think there's something about people like us that makes us more accepting of challenging our own worldviews? I have some thoughts but I've written enough.

  • I mean, I care, but what can I do about it? There isn't a CEO I can shoot to make it stop, nor can I make voting day get here any sooner. All I can do is stamp out ignorance when I see it.

    • There is so much you can do about it, here's a simple suggestion: promote open censorship-resistant communication systems like Lemmy.

    • I think what we're dealing with, in part, is a collective action problem. There's a lot of people who want to do something but either don't know what to do or don't agree on what to do. It's one way that a minority population can stay in power.

      What an individual can do is miniscule compared to a crowd. Also, some people are willing to break laws to make change and others are not.

  • I think people tend to have a very narrow view of what goes on around them. And frankly, I don't think that's really a bad thing. Everyone does it. It's just a fact of life. But we have to account for it. Talking about big-picture issues doesn't work when people are focused their narrow view of the world. Even if they agree with the issue, they won't be riled up and take action. I think there's 2 takeaways to this:

    First, regarding talking to the people around you: narrow your focus. Focus on things that affect them directly, or frame things in a way such that they interpret it in a way that affects them. Don't talk about concentration camps, talk about Trump retroactively rescinding birthright citizenship and how that might affect their lives (especially effective if that person happens to be an ethnic minority or is in a relationship with one). When talking about anti-immigration policies, focus on ICE arresting American citizens because they didn't look American enough. You don't have to convince people of everything, you just have to convince people of enough that they feel personally concerned.

    Second, regarding yourself: it's easy to think that all Americans are similar to the people that you're with. Society is a bell curve. You don't need to shift the entire bell curve to the left to exact change. You just need to stretch it out leftward - pull the left leaning people more to the left. Trump didn't win by convincing leftists to be right-leaning, he won by convincing the right-leaning moderates into shifting right. Consider the audience and pick arguments that would be most effective against that particular audience. Be more direct toward more left-leaning people. Republican? Sow seeds of suspicion toward Trump. Moderate? Make them fear for their way of life. Left-leaning moderate? Maybe we should punish the rich. Leftist? Hell yeah socialism baby

  • exclusively cishet white population

    Red State? Then don't bother, nobody would care.

    Look up the specific area around your workplace and trump's margin of victory, and you'll see just how fucked it is.

    Preaching in a red area is a waste of time, I'm telling ya.

    Edit: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/us/elections/2024-election-map-precinct-results.html

    I think this works. Look it up.

    Edit 2: Oh wow, my Precinct is more than +50 Harris. Go Philly! I'm glad to know that if a nazi is walking around doing the salute, they getting them ass beat.

    Edit 3: HOLY FUCKING SHIT. I looked up my old place in NYC, and wtf a RED WAVE. +20 felon, +30 felon change from 2020. Jesus Fucking Christ. Glad I'm outta that hell.

    NYC is so cooked, especially Brooklyn.

    • Counterpoint, I grew up in a smallish town in Idaho and was still absolutely surrounded by Democrats. State wide, only sixty percent of the voting age population actually turned out, and of those one out of every three people voted against Trump.

      Hell, Democrats outnumbered Republicans in some countries and again, this is fucking Idaho.

      This means that if you talk to an a Idahoan at random, there is a more than fifty percent chance they either largely already agree with you, or they are largely insulated from and not paying attention to politics and thusly susceptible to being swayed with the right approach and concrete examples of what Trumps doing to fuck them and their friends over specifically.

      Left wing ideas and policy are still far more popular among the general public, which is why Republicans have to lie about them constantly.

      Look for your local anarchist bookstore, look at what your counties Democrats actually organized, especially things like local pride events, show up, and network/make friends.

      As is fun to note, there are more Democrats living in Texas than New York state, so the idea you should just give up on finding any around you because you live in a red state instead of one where the numbers are reversed is honestly rather absurd.

  • I think a better question is, how do we make our elected representatives care? (The answer, of course, is by not electing a**holes, but that's not going to happen until people really start to suffer).

  • You have more control over your attitude than over politics, or other peoples' opinions. Don't exhaust yourself and don't strain your relationships uselessly. They want to bring you down and push you out. I usually reject stoicism, but this is a good time to be stoic and keep your energy reserves, and your attitude, fresh.

138 comments