19h ago

Mozilla deletes promise to never sell Firefox data.

github.com Tos copy updates (fix #16016) (#16018) · mozilla/bedrock@d459add

* ToS copy updates (fix #16016) * Apply suggestions from code review - copy change Co-authored-by: maureenlholland <maureen@silverorange.com> --------- Co-authored-by: maureenlholland &lt...

cross-posted from: https://programming.dev/post/26136291

Mozilla has just deleted the following:
“Does Firefox sell your personal data?”
“Nope. Never have, never will. And we protect you from many of the advertisers who do. Firefox products are designed to protect your privacy. That’s a promise. "
Source: Lundke journal.

Firefox @fedia.io

Tea @programming.dev

21h ago

Mozilla deletes promise to never sell Firefox data.

github.com /mozilla/bedrock/commit/d459addab846d8144b61939b7f4310eb80c5470e

358 58

Firefox @lemmy.world

e0qdk @reddthat.com

3d ago

Mozilla is removing "Does Firefox sell your personal data?" in anticpation of ToS change

github.com /mozilla/bedrock/commit/d459addab846d8144b61939b7f4310eb80c5470e

163 59

72 comments

It's pretty funny, because Firefox was like the best browser of the late 2000s, until sometime around 2011 they became adware for a decade just to make a comeback as a privacy focused browser again. So it's not like this hasn't happened before. I always wondered peoples newfound enthusiasm TBH.
Edit: I swear this happened when they switched to the rapid release cycles and FF went from version 6 to 20 in a few months and at one point it became super slow and came with unwanted ad extensions. It's almost like the internet was scrubbed of this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_version_history#Rapid_releases

This seems out of context. The same git commit that removes the paragraph OP pointed out also adds the following text:
"We believe the internet is for people, not profit. Unlike other companies, we don’t sell access to your data. You’re in control over who sees your search and browsing history. All that and exceptional performance too."
To me that seems more like a re-wording than a fundamental change.
Edit: I somewhat misread the commit, as @olexander@lemmy.world pointed out below.
- That is not true.
  The text you quoted is behind a feature-flag. When the the firefox-tou is enabled the words about not selling data are removed.
  https://github.com/mozilla/bedrock/commit/d459addab846d8144b61939b7f4310eb80c5470e#commitcomment-153120154
  
  Huh, you're absolutely right, I haven't noticed that. Now, to be fair the text without the text isn't that much different but it does exclude the explicit promise not to sell data. The text shown without the flag set – and is currently shown on the Firefox website – states:
  "... we believe the internet is for people, not profit. You’re in control over who sees your search and browsing history. All that and exceptional performance too."
  So the sentence "Unlike other companies, we don’t sell access to your data." Is missing. So yeah, i agree, not great. But we'll see what actually happens.
  To be clear, my intention isn't to defend Mozzila, for example I really don't like their privacy policy allows them to "collect technical and interaction data, such as the position, size, views and clicks on New Tab content or ads, to understand how people are interacting with our content and to personalize future content, including sponsored content." I just don't like drawing wide-sweeping conclusions based on things like wording changes.
- We don't sell it it's just me and my 999+ close friends looking over it
- Also seems like typical Lunduke trying to make something out of nothing. Dude loves to fearmonger, especially about Mozilla. I'm not saying Mozilla hasn't done things I dislike, but Lunduke has had it out for them since Brendan Eich stepped down over his opposition to gay rights.

Sigh...

Goddamnit

On a Lemmy I'm always the person who thinks people are overreacting or exaggerating. But this really does seem like the end of firefox as a privacy champion (which, apart from being nonprofit, was my only real reason for using it). I think I will make a donation to ladybird.
Another thing: their acceptable use policy straight up forbids viewing pornography or graphic violence. No nuance or exceptions.
- Where can I find this acceptable use policy?
  Edit: found it but it was not mentioned in the new TOS. Does this only apply to Mozillas other services like sync and stuff?
- Another thing: their acceptable use policy straight up forbids viewing pornography or graphic violence. No nuance or exceptions.
  I might have violated that, but then again I didn't read the TOS.
  
  Your TOS can't stop me, I can't read!
- Upload, download, transmit, display, or grant access to content that includes graphic depictions of sexuality or violence,

Isn't there some legal precedent for them having used the word "never"?
- Legally if you stay on a version prior to the license change they can’t sell your data
  
  That makes sense, thanks.

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villian.

We need an eu browser. The governent for example should only use software that is verifiably secure.
- I'd agree with that if it weren't for multiple EU goverments including mine (Germany) trying to undermine encryption and security at every opportunity possible, despite getting told off by courts more than once.
  Imo the question is how a non profit can be set up to reliably follow their goals in the longterm. And my fear is that ultimately it is always down to the personnel selection, which you can't lock in.

https://github.com/mozilla/bedrock/commit/d459addab846d8144b61939b7f4310eb80c5470e#commitcomment-153120154
Time & time again people can't comprehend that companies need revenue to survive, especially for Mozilla's sake, their > transparency has only harmed them by letting ignorant people see things like this & blindly make assumptions.
The team behind Mozilla is insanely under paid & under appreciated, please keep up the amazing work. ❤
I agree with this. Developers need to eat and pay rent too.
Reading shit like "fuck Mozilla" and "Mozilla is dead" pisses me off extremely. That is just ignorant.
- I don't think many people criticise the developers salaries, but that of the management. The CEO's has multiplied by an order of magnitude while market share has plumeted. From my cursory search it went from ~$500k/y in 2009 to slightly over $1m/y in 2016 after which it sharply increased, today it's over $5m/y. Market share went from 30% to single digit, so it can't be performance based compensation.
  And then there's the question on priotisation and scope expansion, which also determines how much money the need.
  Reading shit like “fuck Mozilla” and “Mozilla is dead” pisses me off extremely. That is just ignorant.
  Sure aren't constructive, but you'll always have those on the internet so i'd say the default should be to just mentally filter them out. However that doesn't mean that there aren't actual reasons to criticise Mozilla.
- While the point is valid that the devs need to eat and sleep and need to get paid, Mozilla is investing money into stupid shit like AI and starting to sell the userdata after they said that they would never do is the main issue here. I guess you would be pissed if your Wife cheats on you after she told you at the altar she wouldn't?
  
  thier obsession with AI(tech in general) hasnt generated useful profit for those companies.
  
  I guess if your wife needs revenue to survive, you can't argue with how she earns it. At least, that appears to be the point they're trying to make.

So if you don’t want to use a chromium based browser but also care about privacy, you’re now fucked?
- Firefox is open-source. Certainly, you're out of options in terms of "name-brand" browsers, but there's a number of Firefox forks. On desktop, LibreWolf is the closest thing to mainline and on Android, IronFox is the equivalent.
  If you want something more than just "Firefox minus the branding and tracking", some of the deeper forks are Zen Browser and Floorp.
  
  Do any of these also have an Android equivalent? I liked being able to browse on my phone and continue on my desktop and vice versa.
  
  What happened to Fennec and PaleMoon? Are they no bueno these days?
- If you don't want to use Gecko nor Chromium, I am aware of the following alternatives:
  WebKit
  Though associated with Apple and Safari, WebKit (@webkit@front-end.social) has its origins in KDE and its Konqueror browser. KDE developed its own web engine called KHTML, which was forked into WebKit. It's therefore fully open source, despite the Apple connection.
  On Linux you can use WebKit in GNOME Web (formerly Epiphany) or Konqueror. If you're on Mac, Safari is probably your best bet. Windows users appear to be out of luck.
  Servo
  Servo (@servo@floss.social) is a brand new Rust-based engine which was originally developed by Mozilla, but which was abandoned by them like good things often are. Thankfully the Linux foundation took over developments. It's still in development, but from their download page you can take it for a spin within seconds on all three major operating systems. It's looking pretty good.
  They maintain a list of things made with Servo. The most promising project so far appears to be a browser named Verso.
  Ladybird
  Ladybird is another development to follow. Unlike WebKit and Servo, Ladybird is being developed as a web browser in its own right, but this browser will come with a completely original rendering engine. It aims to have an alpha released next year, and is largely written in C++.
  
  Funnily enough WebKit was Chromium's original engine.
  
  They maintain a list of things made with Servo
  As someone who has been closely following the development of Servo, today I still learned that Verso and Servoshell are not the only things using Servo.
- Librewolf
  
  I just wish it worked on Apple Silicon.
- I've seen a lot of advocating for Waterfox that I believe is a fork of FF without corporate shenanigans.
  
  Don't they have a bunch of security issues gone untouched for over a decade now?
  
  Does Waterfox (or any of the other forks people are proposing) have apps for iPad OS and Android, and account syncing to enable bookmarks, extensions, and tabs to transfer between devices?
  
  Giving this a try now.
- There is always Dillo...
- Labybird is currently in development and it's separate from both Chromium and Firefox
  
  yea buts backed by shopify.
  
  Right but it’s not even something one can use or download right now or in the short term so it’s kind of not even worth considering at the moment.

- Wow

Mozilla FakeSpot promises that the following "is Sold and/or Shared [with] Advertising partners":
"browsing history, search history"
"Geolocation data"
"a profile about a consumer"
Instead of aligning FakeSpot (which they bought in 2023) with their pro-privacy stance, it seems they are realigning their stance with their actual activity.
Brownie points for being honest, I guess.

Any alternatives to Firefox?
- wp:Category:Software using the Mozilla Public License
  and,
  wp:Category:Freeware
- Waterfox. It's no longer owned by the marketing company that acquired it before

What about Thunderbird?
- Didn't they spin off or something from mozzilla recently?
  
  What do you mean?
- I've been looking for a good alternative as a precaution. Evolution Email seems the next most popular but it keeps logging me out of my accounts every few hours. I might try Betterbird or Claws Mail.
  For Android I'm using FairEmail as mozilla bought k9 Mail.

72 comments

WebKit

Servo

Ladybird