Without getting too /r/atheism, it is funny to see the lengths many Christian scholars will go to try and justify that line.
“Oh, well they were probably actually referring to this giant arch that might have once been translated as “the eye of the needle”, meaning that they were saying it’s really easy to get into heaven”
Like what the fuck? What do you guys think is the point of the passage then?
And these aren’t like yokels and grifters. They’re like PhDs in Christian Theology. The religion at a point is just almost entirely concerned with making up translations and it literally always has been
Especially when the next couple of verses explains it.
Yeah, it's pretty unambiguous. Jesus tells the rich boy that came to him to give away all their possessions and let the Lord clothe them as he does the birds and flowers. Rich boy gets real sad and goes away.
Kind of how they only focus on half of the definition of Gluttony and ignore how it also means excessive Greed.
Which is besides the point because Greed is already one of the deadly sins in it's own right.
I find most of the seven sins redundant.
Lust and gluttony and envy fall under greed. You could also argue sloth for greed of sleep. Wrath and pride are the only two that don't fall under the greed category.
Well it's pretty easy to get around even without the translation mental gymnastics, you just have to ask for forgiveness before you die and put the church as the only beneficiary in your will.
Christians are so desperate to ignore Christ that they literally made up a gate that they called The Eye of the Needle and said that's what Christ was talking about. This gate, which definitely never existed and was not at all what Christ was referring to, was supposedly a bit narrower than other gates and a camel could get through it if it was only carrying a moderate amount of wealth rather than an extreme amount.
You can defeat Jesus on technicalities. This is why it's always important to have a lawyer write your holy books.
You can defeat Jesus on technicalities
Sure can. It's like half of the entire practice of Judaism. No lt about Jesus but it is all about cheating God's rule.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eruv
I talked to one of the authors of the New American Bible, who told me the text is a mistranslation, and it's more like "harder than putting a rope through the eye of a needle", which would've been an idiom familiar to the fishers in the area.
It means "impossible", which is suitable because the things Jesus called for you to do make a rich person into a not rich person, as far as material wealth goes.
According to the Lexham Bible Dictionary, this interpretation "dates back to the fifth century and suggests that kamelos, the Greek word for camel, should actually be read as kamilos, which denotes a rope or a ship’s anchor cable. ... However, most scholars reject this interpretation because the meager textual evidence most likely can be attributed to speculations about this verse by some church fathers (Origen, Cyril of Alexandria; see Fitzmyer, Luke, 1204; Barclay, Matthew, 239)."
They also disagree with the gate interpretation, saying that "Scholars have found no historical foundation for this view, and no evidence supports the existence of such a small gate in Jerusalem’s walls."
I'd be curious to see some actual source on that. Shit like that happens all the time and I find it fascinating.
Maybe Jesus was referring to cigarettes and meant that only Marlboro smokers could go to heaven.
Although 'Jesus' means 'Mexican First Name' in Spanish so it could be something entirely different that we are missing
more like josé, i think 🤔 jesus's dad is more mexican first name, lmao
TIL.
Camel could also mean rope which is a very similar word in Aramaic. Of course I don't read Aramaic but that's what someone said.
According to the Lexham Bible Dictionary, "most scholars reject this interpretation because the meager textual evidence most likely can be attributed to speculations about this verse by some church fathers."
camel?
So are you suggesting we should grind up and forcibly extrude rich people through a small tube into a container devoid of air? I'm open to this idea.
You don't need the saws, just a big enough pressure difference. Google explosive decompression or the Buford dolphin accident
This is terrible design. You'd want it oriented vertically (gravity is basically free energy!) And some unacceptable loss-of-camel may occur due to circular saw use instead of a complementary-conical camel-squisher.
Given the amount of force and level of violence it would take to make that happen, I'd think the needle would get destroyed or pushed out of place pretty quickly.
You'd need to embed the needle halfway through the tube, and it would have to be flush with the rest of the tube. And it'd need to be a thick ass tube.
You're also going to need to strain the bones and cartilage out, and pulp them.
They probably figure if they treat a camel like they've been treating the rest of the world and the people in it, it might prove they've got a chance! Lol
There's another verse of the bible that says "all things are possible with god"
However...One thing the bible is pretty consistently against is liars, cheaters and thieves.
To be a mega-church preacher, you need to be a liar a cheater, and you need to know how to run a scam, so that would fall under the category of a thief.
"Give me all of your money and god will cure your cancer!" obvious scam and a lie.
"Give me all of your money and god will make your credit card debt vanish" is another thing I've seen mega-church types say.
The one time Jesus was ever violent was when he flipped tables and used a whip to get all the merchants out of the church. But under 100% of other situations, he literally wouldn't fight anyone even if they attacked him unprovoked.
Does that sound like the kind of guy that wants a church to be a for-profit business? Mega-churches claim they're non-profit, but all of them live in giant mansions and own multiple private jets and multiple cars that each cost more money that I've ever earned in my life.
I'm non-religious, but I'm more in line with what Jesus wanted people to do than 99% of self proclaimed Christians.
Luke 19:45-46: Then he entered the temple and began to drive out those who were selling things there; 4and he said, “It is written, ‘My house shall be a house of prayer’; but you have made it a den of robbers.”
22“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’
Matthew 7:22-23
I shudder to think of how these types have deluded themselves. To think they'd meet their Creator and say something like:
"Look, Lord, I know we locked the homeless out during a blizzard and used desperate peoples' resources to buy a private jet, and undermined the Gospel's perception across the entire world at every turn....but we raised so much money...for YOU!"
"Give me all of your money and god will cure your cancer!" obvious scam and a lie.
"Give me all of your money and god will make your credit card debt vanish" is another thing I've seen mega-church types say.
Incidentally, there's a conjecture around Christian circles I've seen that says these kinds of actions are what the phrase "thou shalt not take the lord's name in vain" actually warns against.
Not cursing, as it has become commonly associated with, but the literal act of using the lord for vain purposes. Like saying "Give me your money and god will cure your cancer"
An omnipotent and supreme being, who loves me, wants all of my money before he'll get rid of my cancer?
Hey Christians! Who do you think Jesus would deny healthcare to? Who do you think Jesus would be okay with dropping a drone-bomb onto?
Yeah, I don't believe these megachurch pastors believe the word of God at all, or they wouldn't be in that line of work.
Somehow in being an atheist I'm a more honest Christian than them in that I at least state outright that I'm not a Christian. That's more honest than pretending to be Christian just to leverage people's hopelessness to scam them into an even more dire and hopeless situation.
Jesus is actually hiding under my couch right now. When I first saw him down there, I asked him what he was doing there and he said "I'm hiding from the Christians"
The boss upstairs set him up with a pocket dimension with his own utilities down there, but sometimes when it's just him, the cats and my dog in the house he'll come up to my room and watch me play video games.
He doesn't like my taste in video games, he's put off by the violence in a lot of them. But when I showed him video-essays on how "the flood" works in halo, he compared it to the bullshit megachurches are always doing, how they infect people and extort them into giving up their money.
Jesus is a really cool guy....modern day Christians on the other hand...that's another story
99% of self proclaimed Christians hate megachurches.
Anyway, I think with "all things are possible with God" really means if God consents to it, as Jesus said when praying: "Thy will be done"
99% of self proclaimed Christians hate megachurches.
that's a pretty big fucking 1% that give money to megachurches then
99% of self proclaimed Christians hate megachurches.
If the figure is that high, it gives me hope. I wonder if there's data on this somewhere.
Megachurches are definitely among the "principalities and powers" we struggle against.
If they're not outright thieving, they're just self-help seminars preaching about how "Jesus and Americanism are actually totally compatible for realsies."
Grew up with this stupid interpretation that it refers to some small gate in Jerusalem that camels had to bend down to use or something.
Jesus literally gives the answer in the next sentence:
”Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” Those who heard it said, “Then who can be saved?” He replied, “What is impossible for mortals is possible for God.”“ Luke 18:25-27 NRSV
God can save anyone. And my layman’s interpretation on top of it, no man can save himself.
God can save anyone.
Well yeah, but if you're a Christian you believe that it's literally God telling you that you can't be rich and go to heaven. God may make an exception, but it would be just as absurd for you to count on being an exception to this rule as it would be for you to count on being the exception to the rule that "none come to the father but through me". If you're rich, you're just as damned as if you were never Christian to begin with.
He said it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for rich people to go to heaven.
Dank and based Christian memes calling out hypocrisy from religious political factions?
Thoughtful discussions on faith in the comments without immediately devolving into a bashing-all-faiths circlejerk?! On LEMMY?
And that's how we made Reddit obsolete.
There's still some bitterness around here, but I'm glad there's room for talk and respect. Love you all. ❤️
(Christian Anarchist here, if anyone cares)
Shaking hands with St. Peter, slipping him a crisp $20: I think everything's all set here, don't you Pete? C'mon, open up those big beautiful pearly gates.
You need to keep a good lawyer and a good priest on retainer, to keep you out of jail and out of hell
https://i.imgur.com/JwuGK8O.mp4
Jesus warned his followers to beware wolves in sheep's clothing, only there to prey upon the flock from within.
So who else would they be besides con artist preachers?
Also Evangelicals: No, no, why do you bring up the Pope, we're talking about CHRISTIANS, not CATHOLICS.
Evangelicals call it "prosperity gospel" and it's a total perversion of Jesus' teachings. Basically, it claims that rich people deserve to be rich because their wealth is proof that they have God's favor. It's used to explain away why preachers are allowed to own private jets, yachts and diamond mines.
Considering I know that Jesus asked his followers to give up earthly possessions to join him, I don't trust those con artists pretending to be God on earth. God wouldn't favor people doing the opposite of what he sent his son down to preach.
They should just release a version of the Bible word for word, except the title of the book would be "Liberals Guide to Life", and watch them all go crazy over the nutty stuff in there.
