Remote View

1y ago

What are the best steps to reduce the wealth of billionaires?

There are a myriad of news articles here on Lemmy that display the abhorrent influence billionaires have on our society (especially the US, where I reside). I consistently read comments where the posters appear hopeless and despondent of the situation, while others jokingly refer to the guillotine.

As for myself, I have recently found myself with a lot of free time on my hands after being laid off and want to gather ideas on what would be the best hypothetical route to solve this issue. Let me be clear: These are only THEORETICAL IDEAS and I do not condone any illegal activity.

Historical precedent: While I am not intimately familiar with the inner workings of the Occupy Movement, I do know that they were constantly attacked as being unorganized and lacking structure. It would be wise to not fall into the same pitfalls if those were accurate assessments.

Logical formulation: The foundations of the key points of the movement must be logically sound to withstand any external (and internal for that matter) scrutiny.

Motto: If a motto or slogan is chosen, it must be unambiguous so that attacks are directed to the movement, not the motto itself.

I am also aware that most people can't spare any time to these kind of movements. Similar to the Texas seceding news, many commentators have noted that most Texans are living paycheck to paycheck and wouldn't be able to dedicate any time to their cause. I would understand that would be same for this cause as well. However, since I have the time right now, I only ask for your ideas.

Broad issues: High cost of living (mortgages, rent, groceries, etc.) Inflation Homelessness

Philosophical underpinnings: Is there a Threshold of Greed? If so, what is too much wealth?

Possible means of reductions: Voluntary donation or renunciation of wealth past a certain point (highly unlikely) Taxation (also unlikely) Seizing assets (illegal and would most likely set a poor precedent)

It might also to organize an open database of billionaires with their respective fields (Forbes is closed) to help organize a boycott of some sort Though I suspect their fingers are in everything and it would be highly impractical.

Sorry for the word diarrhea. What are your thoughts?

117 comments

Tax the income of corporations not the profit. The same way you get taxed your VAT. That means that corporations can't tax evade: if they make income in a country, they get taxed. They can't go an declare the profit in the Netherlands or Ireland and skip paying taxes.
Create and use parallel institutions to allow society to thrive without needing to play the billionares economy game. Example: communication tools outside of a market involvement such as Lemmy, Element (matrix). Economy tools. Association tools. See the application of Dual Power by socialists, which is what you are proposing here, a redistribution of power and wealth.
Vote for those pushing for these.
- This is brilliant in its simplicity.

Step 1: Slay the dragon.
Step 2: Redistribute its mountain of gold back into the community.
- Easy to say “re-distribute”, harder than hell to do equitably and fairly.
  
  While true, what's your point? Being difficult doesn't mean we shouldn't do it.

A wealth tax does seem warranted for billionaires. I don't like the idea of taxing something inert but honestly that's how they make money. They borrow against thousands of shares at a time and pay zero taxes on the loan.
- The wealth tax has never sat well with me either. We are talking about taxing someone based on the value of an asset that they would need to collateralize or liquidate to pay the tax bill. That doesn’t seem right or fair to me.
  On the other hand, I read today about Trader Joe’s and their suit against the NLRB and I’ve changed my mind. They engaged in a bunch of shady union-busting behavior, they got caught, and now they’re arguing the NLRB is unconstitutional. Meanwhile, the NLRB has been wielding this power for like 90 years.
  Where we’re at is, obscenely wealthy people who break the law are essentially giving the government the finger and saying they should be allowed to do it. They’re acting as if they believe they are powerful enough that they are no longer subject to laws. Trump and Musk are no different. I’m sure there are plenty more.
  It used to be people like that were mostly normal. They would make contributions, get their way most of the time, get some pushback when they went too far, maybe kicked and screamed a little bit, but they would eventually get in line.
  Now, they simply say the rules are bullshit and they shouldn’t have to follow them anymore. These people are undermining our government and subverting the rule of law. It’s time they get kicked in the teeth.
  They derive their power from wealth. Although our government has plenty of problems, it’s still ours if we can hold onto it. It’s time to make a statement to anyone who dares threaten that. FAFO. I’m all for taxing these fuckers.
  
  Don’t have time for a longer post right now. But here’s my question about the wealth tax -
  Trickle down BS and Invisible Hand BS all say that if people have wealth, they WILL reinvest it. That’s the correct thing to do.
  When you drive a car, the correct thing to do is drive safely and at a logical speed. If you do irrational driving, you get a ticket.
  So why isn’t it logical that if you are participating in a capitalist economy, and not doing the correct thing of constantly reinvesting your money, then the govt should fine you for it?
  Wealth shouldn’t just sit around and do nothing, specially in foreign bank accounts. If it does, it should be fined… or taxed.
  
  When the billionaires themselves are telling us to tax the crap out of them then why aren’t we?
- Also land ownership is literally extracting money from having arbitrarily exclusive access to an "inert" ressource.
  
  Property taxes already exist (maybe those could use tweaking too) so the idea of taxing something simply because you possess it isn't all that foreign.

- Wouldn't the wealth necessarily just be distributed to their heirs?
  
  Heirs are finite and have a shelf life. Guillotines are reusable.
  
  That's why the French revolution was so... Thorough
  
  If you are at the point of guillotining billioners, you can also seize their wealth.
  
  Just shows how complicit people are, even when guillotineing a billionaire, we don't know how to acquire their wealth, anyway other comments explain how to do that.

Through force.
The system is well and truly rigged, that there is no option for “democratic” means to counter it.

You don't need to do anything fancy, just make them pay taxes. No loopholes, no moving your money to tax havens, accurate income calculations taxed correctly, gangs of auditors making sure it happens.
- A simple wealth tax will do.
  "I am worth $150 billion, everybody look at me!"
  Great, give us $15 billion and we'll see you next year.
  
  It's definitely an option if you want to take more from them, but just paying the taxes they owe like the rest of us have to would make a huge difference.
- no loopholes
  I don't think it's that easy.

Education. Until the masses realize the tricks being used on them, we can redistribute all we want and it will still all funnel up to the top again.
- We’ve tried that.
  They still decided horse dewormer was a better idea than masks.
  
  There was significant mis-information, which caused that uneducated choice. People didn't all randomly come up with it by themselves. Blame the con-artist, not the victim of the confidence trickery.
  
  Yeah and it worked, now the rug has been pulled from schools for a long time.

- Wait, who is deleting posts? Edit: Nevermind, it's the lemmy.world mods.

we should just Go aroUnd acting lIke they are the best ever Landlords on the pLanet and there is nOthing unusual abouT them beIng the oNly people on earth familiar with thE concept of happiness, right fellow captive serfs?
- I'm not sure, I kinda feel like we could use GUILLOTINES the way GUILLOTINES have been used historically, to spread that happiness around.

Nearly all billionaires have unrealized wealth, meaning they own a large percentage of a giant corporation (ie Bezos, Musk). So taxing them for money they don’t really own won’t work. But there is a better solution.
There are 38 companies in the US whose yearly revenue is greater than 100 BILLION dollars. In fact, the total amount of revenue over 100 billion for these companies combined is a bit shy of the US government yearly budget.
No company needs to revenue that much. Tax the revenue (ie 5%) over 100 billion revenue. This has the added benefit of helping to prevent monopolies and “too big to fail”.
Here is the list and revenue in case you think these companies don’t need to be taxed lol. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_in_the_United_States_by_revenue
Edit: Extra easter egg: The tax rate that you set could be changed each year to meet the amount of the federal deficit (ie the amount the government "overspends"). This would have the added advantage of limiting excessive government spending because politicians would have to explain to the largest corporations why they are spending their money. And you get a guaranteed balanced budget every year!
- Suddenly they all make 99.999 billion...

Shop local.
Oh, yeah...and guillotines.

Eat them
- I bet Jeff Bezos tastes like warm dog shit
  
  That's a testable hypothesis.
  
  Public service isn't always fun.

Guillotines

So many thoughts on this. I'll try to parse some out, one post at a time.
Part of the problem is the standard of legality. Late-stage capitalism is defined by the state serving the ownership class rather than the public. It's why the state cares very little about wage theft, or addicts dropping dead from opioid overdose, or homeless freezing to death in sub-zero Minnesota but are arresting immigrants who are otherwise well-behaved (and paying their taxes) or raiding repair shops that fix iPhones without an Apple authorization. It's why media agencies are so worried about piracy even as they try to lay off their development teams if they can be replaced with AI software.
Laws and the legal system work for the ownership class, not the public. Any legal efforts to strip billionaires of their wealth, or even reduce their profits is going to quickly get neutered. This is why the protections afforded by the fourth, fifth and sixth amendments of the Constitution of the United States have been thoroughly gutted with carve-outs. It's why asset forfeiture is not only a thing, but takes more from Americans than burglaries.
And this is why law enforcement is already attacking mutual aid organizations based on licensing issues, because it's not actually illegal but facilitates other threats to the ownership class, such as labor actions. There is no rule of law in the US. Your rights go only as far as your lawyer's means to enforce them, and if you're depending on a public defender, they just don't have the time or funding.
The ownership class will (according to Marx) tremble before a communist revolution because we will have ruled out all other alternatives, though we may try a fascist autocracy and a massive genocide machine to dispose of all the underclasses, first.
And that's the problem. The Holocaust was legal too. Leaving workers hungry and cold to the elements during the Great Depression was totally legal, and at the time communism as per the Soviet Union was looking pretty good to those of our great grandparents who weren't Carnegie or Rockefeller. This is not our first rodeo. What the state likes (id est, what is legal ) is not a fair moral standard. Nor is what religious ministries like (id est, what is sin ). We have to decide for ourselves what is right and wrong, and if we're willing to die for our pacifistic standards when law enforcement decides we are intrinsically unlawful
This is why some are arguing the climate crisis warrants resorting to violent sabotage (say, blowing up oil pipelines) since the alternative is to let industry pollute us to global catastrophic risk (of extinction). If you want a sustainable civilization, if you want wealth and power distributed fairly, if you want a public-serving government, then you're going to have to give up on lawful action. And if you want to stay within the confines of law, you'll have to give up on equality, a functional state or a future.
- Great answer. I'm getting strong Thoreau Civil Disobedience vibes.
- Great reply, thank you. OP points out that the situation appears hopeless and I often leave feeling that capitalism has truly captured all the regulators and is now free to grind all value out of society. Assume we get a decent amount of the population on the same page what is the next step? Is there no room for reforms? I have a feeling that only when public discussion consistently prioritizes human well-being above all else can any progress be even attempted.

Tax any loans using stocks as collateral. If they try to hide their wealth through an LLC, subject that LLC to a high wealth/business tax as well. Go full scorched earth on all billionaires.

- Probably one of the most actionable steps so far.
  How do you overcome corporations basing themselves in tax minimum countries, like Apple and Google.
  As well as rich individuals who base their trusts in zero tax inheritance countries.
  Rich people have lots of money to "invest" in accountants and lawyers to work around rules like this.
  
  Yeah, there are a thousand loophole. The very rich get paid in stock or low interest loans and the like. Thier stated income is often very low to avoid paying taxes. Corporations of course can just split up into multiple corporations to avoid caps.

You know what's free?
SHAME. Shame these selfish fucks every fucking second they are in the public. I want to see a 4 year old give musk the finger. I want to hear a 7 year old shout "SELFISH CUNT" at bezos. I want everyone they interact with who's not on their payroll to roll their eyes and say "oh no everyone watch out, mr "I need to horde billions" is here. What do you fucking want?"
invective has always been a valuable tool against the arsehole polity.
- They feel no shame. If they even acknowledge, they just call it "jealousy" from "haters".
  
  so? if they feel no shame, treat them like the greedy assholes they are. at least everyone else will see the object lesson.

Unions.
Anti trust enforcement.

Immediate impact:
wealth tax.
Medium term:
death tax.
nonprofit land developments.
redefinition of the goal of a public corporation from maximizing profit for shareholders to something that makes sense.
Long term:
effective antitrust legislation, policy, and enforcement.
worker owned co-ops
civic education
Edit: I forgot unions and labour protection in immediate impact.
- redefinition of the goal of a public corporation from maximizing profit for shareholders to something that makes sense.
  Any suggestions?
  
  A focus on long term profitability over the next quarter's profits would go a long way in making things better.
  
  I'd rather leave it to the experts who study this stuff.
  The only one I've heard of is called the "triple bottom line". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_bottom_line

Convince them to take a trip to see the Titanic...
- join us in our way grave

Voluntary donation or renunciation of wealth past a certain point (highly unlikely) Taxation (also unlikely) Seizing assets (illegal and would most likely set a poor precedent)
Part of the issue is that they see those as more or less the same thing.
As far as I'm concerned, taxation is the answer. Brackets seem to work pretty well. The issue is tax havens. Here in Norway, the current government raised taxes a bit on the wealthy, as one would expect going from a conservative liberal bunch to a center-left-ish one. A bunch of wealthy people promptly took their ball and fucked off to Switzerland, after removed and posturing and whining in public, eagerly helped by the news media.
Unfortunately it seems that while I consider this obviously selfish parasitism, a lot of people... don't. After all if you're rich, surely you deserved it(!)

Taxation (also unlikely)
I think this is the most feasible way, and it work relatively well in other Western countries than the US. They still have billionaires, but fewer due to higher taxation. If put in place through referendum, it also creates a basis for societal approval of stripping very wealthy people of their excess wealth, lowing the risk of widespread revolt.

Remember that company that made the base pay $70,000 for everyone. News was predicting (hoping) they would fail in a year. They didn't, and big surprise, they have amazing staff retention. We need more companies like that. Places that pay well where people want to work. They would eventually pull away all the talent from the horde companies and shut them down. It would be a long fight, but glorious to see the workers sip tea and watch their old companies fail. This is how you beat the current system, by making egalitarian companies that can actually compete with them, where people are proud to work and get paid a living wage.

- You have to be pure evil to be a billionaire, sitting on that much wealth with so many suffering in the world you can easily help. They are psychopaths if you think about it.
  I'm down with the guillotine.

The best steps would be the ones taking them to the guillotine

we need to change the parameters of success.
the current "world's richest persons" list is actually the "world's greediest persons" list. we need to all start calling it exactly that. we need to, as society, understand that having those levels of wealth is more a symptom of a sick and twisted mind rather than a consequence of "business acumen".
the world's richest persons list should be recalibrated to what percentage of one's income has been given away in taxes and donations. think about it, if you can indulge in all your necessities, comforts, and luxuries on 10% of your income and still afford to give away the other 90%, are you not 9 times "richer" than you need to be?
separately, any company that turns an obscene profit has done so only by overcharging their customers. these companies should be vilified therefore, and not celebrated.
- So true. And a national change in perspective is definitely achievable.
  
  I doubt it is really greed. They are competitive. It's a different driver.

All the people saying taxes or caps on income are missing the point. Who should impose those taxes or caps? The government is basically controlled by billionaires, it doesn't matter what the ordinary citizens want.
- Hence the guillotines answer I've seen float around

I don’t think the crazy taxes need to be on obscene wealth itself, but on the very lavish and wasteful things people do with that wealth, things that have a very real impact to the rest of society.
For example, private jets or even private chartered flights should have some very steep taxes to offset the cost of all the FAA employees and stuff at all the small airports, all the carbon emissions, and everything.
Yachts, and very large properties also come to mind. Like total square feet of living space of all real estate owned - once it crosses like 10,000 sq ft the annual taxes just get higher and higher. For example 10k-20k sq ft costs $1/sq ft annually, 20k-40k costs $5/sq ft, etc.
- They barely spend money on these things, it's worth understanding what billionaire really means. You could levey hundred percent taxes on these things and billionaires wouldn't even notice
  
  And yet they go through great lengths to make sure those things aren't taxed the way other things are. In fact, they're tax deductable: https://www.propublica.org/article/private-jets-yachts-wealthy-tax-deductions-irs-files .
  If they didn't care about spending extra, stuff like that wouldn't make it into laws.
  Being wealthy is cheap in a lot of ways, in the same way that being poor is expensive.

The one i can think of and will work if everyone wasn't so wimpy is boycotting everything they sell . Like never buying anything from amazon even if the alternative costs you 10x , and not buying teslas even if they are the best cars around (they aren't) etc. etc . In conclusion if we refused to buy anything any billionaire is selling their stock will crash and burn and i don't think any of them have enough braincells at this point to turn it around.
- Definitely one of those ideas that would 100% work in theory but never in practice. The concept of "voting with your dollar" is still a powerful tool because it doesn't need to be complete, just enough to hurt the industry.
  
  As Cory Doctrow says, voting with your dollar is a fixed game because he who has the most dollars wins. Not to discourage it, though, because that would be pretty hypocritical to publicly condem the same store that you shop at, for example.
- The stark reality is regardless of how vigilant you are in not supporting billionaires, you need to survive, and the money you spend achieving that will inevitably go to them in some amount.
  I think the most realistic thing people can do is pressure politicians to change the legislature so that billionaires can't even exist. Sadly, the billionaires buy the politicians. When we have an answer to solving that issue, then maybe we can see real change as a society, but the longer we wait, the harder it is to force the change, and the elites become an ever increasing power, while the working class inversely loses power.

Meat grinder

Since this is AskLemmy, perhaps Lemmy should answer you.

No need, I've been hearing that it's good when they get all the money shoved at them BECAUSE, and hear me out now, they may or may not choose to maybe trickle some of the wealth they don't obsessively hoard or burn on pleasure trips into space back onto the population.
They're bound to start doing that aaaaaany decade now...

To help our poor billionaires I will take one for the team and help them reduce their burden, for a small administrative fee, I will take ownership of 10% of their fortune, I'd imagine there are several other people who gladly would agree to help in slmilar ways.
- But then you'd be a billionaire aswell and would need to be excecuted for the horrible person you are.
  
  I'd obvously vet my clients based on their fortune:
  A bilionaire with a fortune up to 9 billion, then I'd manage to deal with 10%
  But at 10 billions to 99 billions, I could only manage to deal with 1%
  Also, I would disperse the money, sharing it with the world, while at the same time gathering cameras, computers, and other things I enjoy, thus ensuring that the wealth is not just collected, but actively used and taxes are paid.
  Then as the funds I have been tasked with reducing are gone, I am able to accept a new client for this most noble of task.

Labor organizing, laws, and taxes. Same way we got what we have now but the work isn't done.

A recent study has shown there is little increase in happiness beyond $500,000 in annual earnings. Based on that I suggest a cap of $500k per year or $50 million lifetime earnings.
The former would be for most people, the latter is for movie stars or athletes who might have a few very high earning years and love off them the rest of their life.

Honestly? Nothing can be done short of violent revolution. The rich control the government and the government controls us. Voting is lauded as the common person's chance to have their voice heard, but it's a gerrymandered mess. The politicians are all liars who just want in for clout, power and money. It's a perfect system of control down to even allowing us right now to freely talk about it because they know we're too scared, too fat and too distracted to make any real change. We're prisoners here.

To answer the question in terms of things you personally can do, I think the boring and realistic answer is to research organizations who align with your goals and who you think have effective methods, and get involved with them.
Personally I like represent.us - They're specific to the US, but their idea is to put anti-corruption laws into place that help remove the influence of money on the government. This would help get laws passed that favor everybody instead of just the rich. Their approach is to begin at the local level and get enough momentum for a national movement to have some power.
Here are a couple of videos they made, first about what the problem is, and second about how they are trying to solve it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tu32CCA_Ig
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhe286ky-9A

I hear what you're saying. I don't see the methods you listed working under our government as our system has this flaw where the laws enforced tend to depend on which party is in charge.
That being said, organize your workplace. I'm personally fond of the Industrial Workers of the World as we are the only union that has an anticapitalist stance and our industrial organizing methods make it harder for employers to create division amongst the workers of a workplace (ie: separate unions for school teachers and school maintenance staff).

Since force is a clear crowd favorite: What would that look like? Angry mod surrounds home of billionaire and guillotines them on their lawn? According to Forbes there are currently 735 billionaires. That might take some time.
- It took about a century in France just to go from monarchy to republic.
- Are you kidding?
  735 would take like 20 minutes in parallel if all of the wage slaves got together wherever each billionaire is and gave them what they have coming. And boy do they have it coming!
  Those who make peaceful revolution impossible (by buying up our politicians, governments, and news-media) will make violent revolution inevitable.
- It'd be more like, load them into the guillotine, and right before you set the blade in motion, offer them one last chance. swipe your cards, enter your pins, and transfer 90% of your income to the public fund (and live), or die and we take all of it. They've been using the threat of violence and incarceration against us our whole lives (steal from a company, cops arrest you, company steals from you, you have to get it back yourself), why not return the favor?

Taxes! But different. This channel is very informative:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEdx1BIb1x0
The first Episode of Sabrina Live! is called How the Rich Don't Pay Taxes. All the rich need to do is use three simple steps: "Buy, Borrow, Die." In this episode, Rich Kid attempts to buy a $50 video game after purchasing a $1 Pokemon card. He then leaves his Pokemon card to his son - Rich Kid II.
www.peoplestaxpage.org.

So for practical matters:
Lobbying takes time and effort, but it can be effective if done resiliantly.
Find out who in your local community has money and power. Find issues to reach out to other people and politicians on. Maybe there is a new school that would need to be build, butthe guy holding the land refuses to sell at a fair rate? Maybe there is an elderly women being kicked out of her house?
One problem is people havinga detached and abstract idea of super rich people and dont see how their immediate lifes are affected for the worse by it.
There is many people who look into the big picture, like we saw with the Panama papers and other investigative journalism. Did anything tangible come out of it? Why not? I think it is because people are not demanding for it politically. It is some abstract accepted injustice.
But through local action you can steer your community and by this you can force your political representative to adress these issues. That also means looking into the way they voted on issues and holding them accountable. Imagine they voted against an education spending bill and the next week there is a "moms for education" protest in front of his local office and it is all over local news.
Apply the pressure from the bottom up. No billionaire cares what John Doe from Springfield thinks. But they care what congress thinks. And congress cares what the members think. And the members care, what their electorate thinks. And that is where you, or everyone really, can make a difference.

Yes, yes. Guillotines. Come on, do you really think that could happen? I just don't think it is realistic.
After the recent news of several billionaires asking to be taxed more that seems like the most realistic and viable to redistribute some of the wealth. I think you could probably get unions and democrats (leverage ALL existing organizations) to help lobby for some sort of "patriotic wealth tax" or however you wish to spin it. Start small to get it established and then keep lobbying to increase it.
I would recommend staring with a tax on income (ANY income with NO deductions) over $1M/year, maybe 10%. And then tax anyone's assets over $1bn at 2% every 5 years. Then keep changing those numbers to increase the revenue.
- I would recommend staring with a tax on income (ANY income with NO deductions) over $1M/year, maybe 10%.
  Well it's already 37%, so 10% wouldn't be nearly enough. I'd suggest more like 80%, and since the progressive brackets are what they are you could add another at 5M with 99% tax.
- Thank you for a thought-out response.

Trick them into making poor investments.

Honestly I think the best means for changing things is right under our noses: voting. Not just federal, but also state and local. As it is now, in most places tax cuts that flow mostly to the wealthy are still a great political move that's an easy way to get votes. That's the first thing that needs to change.
There's all kinds of groups like the Center for Tax Reform and the US Chamber of Commerce that push for policies that tend to increase financial inequality - but as far as I know there isn't one for reducing inequality. Given how many people recognize the problem, maybe there should be one. And then politicians can start to fear that group as much as they fear the others. Of course it won't have a lot of wealthy donors, but as some politicians have shown small donations can do a lot.
- Voting doesn't change anything when billionaires can be easily lobbied. Just look at what happening in France, it is not the US as there are some rules against it but politicians are doing exactly what billionaires want them to do. French people are against those laws in favor of the rich but the gouvernement doesn't care.

Focus on making the poor people richer instead. Then you’ll realize things are going pretty good.
- Hard to make the poor people richer when the rich are taking an increasingly large share of the pie.
  
  Money is infinite though. The wealthy people know how to tap into all the manipulative ways of increasing their own wealth. What we need is education for everyone to know how to do this. But of course a problem with that is that if everyone is wealthy, no one is wealthy because wealth doesn't exist without something to contrast it with, which are the poor financially-illiterate people who do all the hard labor which generates wealth for their CEOs. Which is why the wealthy people don't want to educate poor people on financial literacy.
  
  Actually with the wonders of math it’s not. Because if the pie gets bigger faster than their portion increases, we all win.
  And, as it turns out, the poorest people in the world are indeed getting richer.

Locking as the reports for the comments in this post are just enormous.

I don't think movements succeed based on being organized. I think the core factor is people having nothing to lose.
- That could be true. I'm only repeating what I heard en mass during the Occupy Protests of the perceived reason of failure.

2nd amendment
- The Rupert's Land Act?

117 comments