Will I get bullied for not meeting standards here?

i mean what counts as bullying? the answer is no becasue nobody reads on Hexbear /hyperbole. also, i personally feel as if the word leftist is a somewhat nebulous term that doesn't actually mean much or tell me much about a person.

This is the least serious leftist space. You will be just fine here. If you make a bad take, you may get called out on it. But the correct response is to just investigate what they are saying and adjust your views accordingly. That's all it takes to be a "good" leftist; the only "bad" leftist is someone who refuses to do that navel-gazing, refuses to critically examine their own views.

No one reads theory, they just tell people to read theory. One day someone will actually read theory and tell us what the hell we're all doing here.

Being gatekept on being a leftist is extremely leftist, the more times you've been purity tested the more leftist you are. Doesn't matter if you actually pass those purity tests, mind you, but it means you've stuck around long enough to not have given up and succumb to becoming a lib or fash.

As for theory, you can start with listening to Dolly Parton's seminal "9 to 5" as a primer on communism

No, you won't be bullied as long as you act in good faith. It's a good sign that you want to grow and learn and are willing to ask questions.

In my book, you're a leftist if you want the end of capitalism. The rest of theory is just for learning the how and the why.

For something that's easier to read, I'd suggest Blackshirts and Reds by Michael Parenti.

Also there isn't like an exam for leftism. Being an educated leftist is always better but if you say you're a comrade, you are to me until proven otherwise and that's done through actions

Just learn a handful of quotes and drop them here and there in discussions, no one will notice that you haven't read theory

We're all liberals here, so no worries

The important thing is to engage in a continual process of learning and self-education, so that you can engage in correct practice. Liberals don't have to do this because a. we're constantly bathed in propaganda that disseminates their worldview and b. they don't want to change the world in any meaningful way. You can pick up a lot by just hanging out with other leftists here and listening and chatting, but eventually you will want to read theory to better understand why they think the the things they do. Better yet, join an org irl, engage in political education through them and put it into practice.

At the end of the day, leftism isn't something you are, it's something you do.

@mathemachristian@hexbear.net already linked my basic beginner guide in this thread so I won't spam it. Instead, I'll leave you with advice for if you never read theory, as much as I think you should.

Don't speak on what you haven't thoroughly investigated. If that is, say, whether or not revolution is required, don't immediately say yes or no, or even say that you think revolution is required but aren't sure. This sounds mean, but I promise, this right here will eliminate the vast majority of any real bullying you could come across. You can learn the answers to those questions by reading theory but also by listening to others.

Secondly, browse effort-posts and the News Mega. Just see what people are saying, and try to look up online what you aren't familiar with.

Third, just have fun in the general megathread and hobby comms like c/games! Those are just comfy and cozy.

Yes I admit, I haven't tried to read theory. I have no confidence that I would do it correctly.

two points. first, the only incorrect way to read theory is to not read it. even if you don't understand 100% of a book -- hell, even if you only understand 25% of a book the first time you read it -- you can still get a lot out of it and become a better, more informed leftist. second, theory is only one side of the coin. what makes a good leftist is a combination of theory and praxis that inform each other, so if you're still really that worried about not being able to read theory, getting out and actually contributing to a leftist cause will both help you feel like you're a Good Leftist and make reading theory more approachable, bc praxis informs theory and vice versa

Death to America

Nah, I don't meet theirs as well. Just be economically socialist, superstructurally progressive, and foreign policy-wise anti-western

'having lots to say is what matters the most here, and that is something I cannot do.'

• something you cannot do... YET.

my first year or two of leftism was hanging out in online forums and reading 'easy' theory by Chomsky and other similar palatable modern theorists, who aren't exactly Marxist with a capital M, but have valid critiques of capitalism.

I'd recommend 'How The World Works' by Chomsky. It's my go to recommendation to anyone who's curious. The whole book is taken directly from his radio appearances and the like, so it's totally conversational and written for maximum digestibility. Each chapter is very short, sometimes even just a page or two iirc. He gets into the big debates, without throwing jargon around.

For me, it was illuminating, and made me pretty angry with the world and the lies I'd been told. This drove me to go further and further. I found what interests me most: imperialism.

I think a knowledge of imperialism is the key to unlocking Marxism.

A work like Capital may be a little much to start with and the style is a little old fashioned, but I think you're underestimating yourself. Reading any sort of non-fiction just means taking it at the pace you are comfortable with. Sometimes you have to look up a word or a phrase, sometimes you have to sleep on something and come back to it with fresh eyes -- that's fine! Understanding isn't something you get immediately -- it comes over time. If you're still intimidated, maybe try starting with something outside of direct theory. Pick a topic that you're interested in, and find a book on it. Reading is like any habit, it gets better with practice!

what do you mean by you haven’t been able to read theory? like is something making it difficult for you or are you not sure where to start, or is it something else? someone here might be able to help you out

I want to second what propter_hog said, being a leftist is a process. There is always more to learn about the world and the forces that drive it. Keep learning, and develop some healthy skepticism and media literacy with regard to capitalist depictions of socialist countries, and you're on track.

You're here to learn, you won't get bullied. Generally when someone gets dumped on massively it's cause they came in combative and arrogant and remained so in the face of people replying with paragraphs of well written and educational rebuttals with links, if the other person proceeds to double down it's open season. This us a very comfy place to be otherwise. You're approaching with probably more humility than we'd expect let alone see often, so you're fine.

Welcome! We have a LOT of emojis and an account everyone can use if they want to pretend they're a dog!

Down with purity tests.

If you want fair treatment and opportunity for all people and an end to the exploitation of the third world, you're a leftist.

Das Kapital was fundamental to my leftist awakening, don't let others tell you its scary.

People will argue with you if you say something they disagree with but the only bullying I've seen is towards people who are being bigots or advocating for things that objectively suck

We only bully bastards, subhuman crackers, and shitheads who side with the oppressor over the people and behave like reactionary/neoliberal scum on this website. The "standard" here is not being a bootlicker

I was questioned on whether I "actually am a leftist", by a friend.

"UR NTO A LEFTIST BCUZ I DIDNT SEE U CITE KONDRATIEV WAVES IN UR RESPONSE"

Your friend sounds like an elitist wanker who has dreams of becoming an academic.

The other day, I was questioned on whether I "actually am a leftist", by a friend. After I nervously answered fairly basic questions such as believing in healthcare and collective labor, they weren't convinced. Ever since that day, I felt like I couldn't be a leftist, especially since I lost any confidence in my ability to be "better" according to that person's standards. If I couldn't satisfy their standards that one time, what would be the point of trying to read theory and trying again? Yes I admit, I haven't tried to read theory. I have no confidence that I would do it correctly.

This is why you're supposed to join an org. Most serious orgs have an onboarding process where you'll be taught basic precepts and foundational texts of the ideology embraced by that particular org. You'll also be assigned to do work by the org, and be build up to become someone who embodies the ideals of the org. You have imposter syndrome because you haven't done anything to advance the emancipatory project, and you haven't done anything to advance the emancipatory project because you are not part of an org.

Unless you're some rich multimillionaire quietly funding underground Maoist insurgent cells, you'll not be able to contribute unless you're part of an org. If there are no suitable orgs near you, your responsibility is to either create your own org or support other orgs. Creating your own org is self-explanatory in a "draw the rest of the fucking owl" sense. Supporting other orgs can range from financially supporting them to doing agiprop for them. Even if you're the only leftist in a sea of Christofascists, you can still contribute to the cause. But you can't do this on your own. None of us can.

Well don't be afraid to ask questions if you got them and if anyone chooses to behave like a little shit, report them to get swatted on the nose with a newspaper roll.

People can be pretty harsh. That's not my style. Questioning someone's commitment to their political beliefs doesn't achieve much besides creating enmity.

I prefer to have more open discussions and to invite people to develop from where they are currently to something more advanced by getting them to hash out the contradictions with themselves.

Some people here might come at you a bit strong but it depends on your tone. If you're telling others what to do, what not to do, or what to believe then that's going to attract strong negative reactions. If you tell people "You shouldn't praise Stalin - he was a vicious monster" you're inviting yourself to get roasted. If you approach it from a place if genuine curiosity with openness and honesty, and especially humility, you'll get a much better response e.g. "I guess I've only ever been exposed to people telling me that Stalin was a vicious monster so I'm kinda surprised to see someone say this about him. Can you tell me more about how you came to your understanding of him?"

You don't have to agree. You don't have to know. But if keep your ego in check and show a willingness to be humble and to learn then you'll be fine.

If you want to make a better world, you can be a leftist.

The HOW of making a better world will determine where you fit into the left, and only learning what it is that differentiates each section of the left will really teach you where you fit in and whether you agree more with one method over another.

Many leftists from the other segments will tell you you're not a leftist if you don't subscribe specifically to their segment. This is unavoidable. I am told I'm not a leftist every single day by people that don't subscribe to marxism-leninism.

Do not worry about it.

comrade @cowbee@lemmy.ml dropped an excellent list https://lemmy.ml/post/22417306

ask any questions you have the moment you have them. and if somethings too hard or something else catches your eye that list is a good recommendation but not a prescription.

I think it's ok to be a quiet lurker and only speak up when you feel like you have something to say or have a question. Questions are good. I'm a victim of spoon theory so I will sometimes go wall of text, but then rest of the day just do a shitposty comment session. They haven't kicked me yet.

As for whether you are a leftist, collectivism and healthcare reform is a good start. I can't answer that question without knowing more. Do you support capitalism? Do you think it can be reformed in favor of the working class? Do you think we can only get to a better place through revolution? I think that is probably the best starting point. At one point I was a reformist, now I'm not. But it was a journey. And I think that is important too. None of us woke up as revolutionaries. It took time to peel away the western propaganda that at least us burgerlanders were victims of.

So with that said, I do think theory is important, but the cool thing is that the books and essays aren't going away any time soon. You can take your time when you get to reading it. And please do. I've even reread stuff to further solidify concepts. The more you do read, the better understanding you will get. A key thing imo is understanding actual dialectics but don't worry about that for now. It's hard to read about at first but once you get it, you start looking at things a lot differently. This is one of the places I would unironically use the word "woke" as a description. Dialectics leads into a better understanding of the "whys" of working class liberation but also gender, queer, trans, black, and disabled liberation, among other concepts. It's a big pill to swallow so take your time.

With that said, regarding not ever having read theory, my cut and dry suggestion is to read Principles of Communism by Engels. It's short and extremely easy to read. If you seem to agree with everything, or at least a lot of what's in there then you are probably a leftist. If the content interests you then come back to cowbee's list and start working through that. But, to reiterate, please take your time.

I've only been wrong about one person I felt was a leftist, and that was actually super recent, but at that I wanna say, I think you are on the right path. You are here asking questions and that's a hell of a start.

It depends on how willing you are to grow as a leftist. Consider purity tests a way to sharpen not only your beliefs, but the beliefs of the person testing you.

Not everybody is a debate bro. That's okay.

Not everybody comes to the conclusion that being a communist or socialist or humanist or antifascist through rigorous theory reading and debate. It can be okay to take these things on faith alone if that's all you've got right now.

Learning theory and reading/watching debates can be good for hardening your position against potential self doubt. Learning theory can be good in showing you that "Nope, nothing that I'm thinking or feeling is new. I'm not alone. Here's what others that came before me learned and have passed down as an act of solidarity with a future that they will never see." But it can be difficult to get started, keep up with it, or retain what the lessons were. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Shit, I've spent the last two weeks trying to read Marx's, Capital - Volume 1. Wanna know how far I am?

Page 39.

...

...

...

And the actual text doesn't start until page 27 of the copy I'm reading.

You're fine comrade. We're all libs here.

Your 'friend' sounds like an arsehole tbh

Yes you will be bullied for not meeting our standards but afterwards you will realize how rational our standards are. (Don't be a bigot and always side with the demise of the american empire you'll be ok for a while.)

You can be a leftist. You don't have to "be" better but you do need to think better than "unions are good" and "healthcare is a right." Leftism is a rejection of capitalism, and a demand for true equality and the end of private ownership of the means of production.

As far as theory goes start with the Communist Manifesto. Its a really easy read and if you agree with it you are probably a leftist. There are Anarchist manifestos that would also be considered leftism but disagree with Marx on some things but I'm not an anarchist so I can't point you in a good direction. Deeper theory will hopefully make you a better leftist but it won't change the core idea.

I don't know if this is a bit or not, but either way you're all good in my books comrade

I don’t think so, my beliefs are a dadaistic incoherent mess on purpose and nobody has said anything

You've got imposter syndrome. Lots of people have it. It's just our brains working against us to exaggerate our sense of inadequacy and then use this to get in the way of doing entirely reasonable and feasible things like reading some books.

For context, to be a socialist means recognizing the falsehoods of liberalism and working against them. Liberalism is hegemonic, though, so that means defenders of liberalism only need to rely on prevailing wisdom and clichés while we inevitably need to know a bunch of stuff to get through to them. Though don't be fooled by that one condescending person! If they were in any way competemt or purposeful about building socialism they would have supported you in joining their way of seeing things, not made you feel like you aren't even a leftist - assuming you weren't saying anything highly reactionary. Anyone that regularly does org work with community recognizes the liberal impulse to dunk on people that don't need dunking on and trains their members to not do that.

I've known lots of people in your boat. The only way I've ever seen them work through it is by building confidence by doing work with an org and by reading the theory that had made them insecure to not know. Not that it was easy. Some did org work and felt insecure for over a year because they didn't dedicate time to reading. But once they did, they felt better and better. I think it helps that other people they felt intimidated by didn't actually know that much, that just reading 3 books put them in a better place to understand theory than the person that made them feel less than. For example, one person's critic was a Trot that wasn't even in an org doing anything and had a series of bad takes that became obvious in hindsight.

Something that helps is by not letting org work or reading be too big of a hurdle. You don't need to run a committee or read Das Kapital right away.

Here is a doable alternative for org work: identify an org by going to an action and asking how you can help. It's okay to dip your toes in. If all you do is support other people in the org by being nice to them and helping out with logistics (taking notes, transporting materials, etc) you will still be very helpful!

Here is a doable alternative for reading theory: read 1 (1) short book over the next few months. Something like Blackshirts and Reads that is written in modern language and is low on jargon. Take some notes on key ideas in each chapter that resonated with you, or just some bullet points.

Okay my comment is getting too long so I'll wrap it up. Don't think of my comment as just saying, "go read theory", because I'm not nagging you or being flippant! I'm still suggesting reading but it is because this is a good way to break through how you are feeling. In this case, you can make the impossible feel possible by doing it in small pieces and at your own pace. And you should also forgive yourself both for your perceived inadequacy (it is valid to feel overwhelmed) and for your reticence. These are common feelings but you don't deserve them. You're already wanting to fight the good fight, there are just some barriers, and, like most people, one of them is your own brain!

Please feel free to PM me if you prefer that, I have worked with and mentored many people in your boat. Replying (or not) here is also totally cool.

Honestly I think Capital is best absorbed as an audiobook. Throw it on while you're doing something else, because it is so God damn boring until you get to the later spicy bits.

If you hate capitalism and injustice with a burning passion that's all you need to be leftist in my book.

yes. even if you are a leftist, if you deviate even a little from what the clique of weirdo mods and super online "friends" (cops) agree on you will be deleted and or banned eventually.

You are now to explain to us orbital hybridisation in 45 minutes, or you are not up to our standards. /s

Donate your time to revolutionary action like soup kitchens or labor organizing. Actions speak louder than words.