We also need shittable cities. It is a massive pain to be out without a public restroom, especially at night when the already slim toilet options get locked up. My best strategy has been going to police stations and bothering a cop for a bathroom key at 1am. If nothing else, it's funny.
Shout out to all of the fellow Lemmy people with IBS/IBD who cannot be more than 5 minutes from a bathroom and yet have no right to one in public. It’s a legitimate disability that the ADA does not cover despite more and more people having it. The right to accessible bodily waste disposal should be recognized the world over.
@CleoTheWizard @Sdnimm543 do you mind explaining your comment that the ADA doesn't cover it? I'm pretty certain that GI disorders are included in the ADA
Absolutely! I don't even have any bowel related health issues and occasionally find myself in trouble.
The worst was when I used to go running along the river the city I lived in. For years, the public toilet I occasionally used was open 24 hours. Then one day, for no reason and with no notice, they started locking it between 9 pm and 9 am. The day I discovered that was not a good day.
Knowing that I needed ready access to a toilet a few times a month was enough to curtail my running to the point where I just quit.
In more than one way. When I'm out with my dogs I sometimes have to carry their poop for kilometers because my city can't be bothered to set up some bins along the walkways. The very few that are around are at playgrounds where I'm not allowed to enter with the dogs. And then for whatever reason they realize they've got a bunch left and just install five of them at one place.
I hate that many other people don't pick up after their dogs, but in a way I understand at least some of their frustrations. They're assholes nonetheless.
This. When I see cities without public restrooms (and not just on the most touristy areas) I just assume that they don’t care about their citizens. It’s such a basic need.
@Sdnimm543 @stabby_cicada I believe India has a solution for you.
Benches are just so nice. The value-to-price proposition is amazing and I don't see why any city would disagree with this other than incompetence. I recently ordered a bench for a little public garden in my neighbourhood and plopped it there for 100usd. People love it :)
Cities discourage benches because the homeless might use them and that would mean acknowledging the homeless exist.
They did that in my city. They build a whole station with zero benches because according to the asshole architect, "station are meant to board train, not to wait".
It's more that it makes the area unpleasant and even perhaps dangerous to others. Sucks but it is what it is
What about shitable cities? We need more free toilets!
"it's a three minute walk to the nearest toilet"
Yeah, going on a roadtrip with my mum is a constant quest for reaching the next toilet, often relying on the goodwill and staff toilets of stores. And there's genuinely trips she just cannot or does not do, because there's no toilets on the way.
Absolute insanity to me that we've outlawed peeing outside, without having free toilets available everywhere.
And there's a good chance you'll be disabled before you even get old.
With how the world seems currently, getting old might not even be on the table
From What is a Walkable city:
These spaces incorporate elements like seating areas, public art installations, water features, and greenery, enhancing the overall aesthetic appeal and providing a respite from the built environment.
and
Ample green spaces, street trees, and seating areas provide comfortable resting spots and encourage people to enjoy their surroundings.
So... yes? Like I know it might be cathartic to someone driving-by (heh) the concept, but seating is very much in the design of walkable cities.
I think their point is that even in situations that able bodied people might consider to have "ample seating," it may not be enough for those with disabilities. 3 minutes of walking between benches, I'd say, would probably be considered pretty ample seating by most city planners. It would be no where near enough for my dad, or for my mom before she went full time in the wheelchair. One solution to this could be something along the lines of the little carts they have at Walmart, but like, owned by the city and able to be checked out for free, combined with some people with mobility issues actually getting a say in how the city is planned out, and where the ramps and stuff are for the sidewalks.
No, we absolutely don't need to inundate every city with eight benches per block. (Two per side.)
There's a point at which you have to meet halfway, and if you can't walk for five minutes straight you should probably be in a walker or wheelchair.
In general I agree that cities need to be more walkable, and that includes seating. But the "some people can't walk three minutes" idea needs to go.
I think people were laughing less at the sentiment, and more at the "send tweet" at the end.
I know I was.
Hrm. Tokyo probably wouldn't be considered a walkable city in that person's view. Benches can be thin once you get outside the station area. Most people live within 20 minutes of their station (rents drop dramatically after that in most cases), but 3 would probably be too expensive, especially for a pensioner (not sure how old this self-proclaimed old person is). Tokyo is doing better than it used to in terms of escalators and elevators, but a lot of places still just have stairs for now. I certainly wouldn't want to be in a wheelchair or on crutches around here, though it's mostly doable.
My first thought: Tokyo is highly walkable but not sittable. You are always supposed to go somewhere. You sit at your destination or in the subway.
We do have a lot of small parks, but basically yes
I don’t think they referred to themselves as old. I think they’re disabled and bringing up the fact that old people have similar issues because everyone gets old.
OK, I can see that interpretation, too.
So much this
Also, what's three minutes for one person could be ten or twenty for someone else who can barely stand for five
There's a restaurant I like to go to that if you have certain disabilities, good luck getting there. The closest handicap parking spot is a block and a half away and there's only one, or a bit further there are a few in a parking garage. It's an uphill incline to get there and there's not a single bench the entire way between parking and the restaurant. If you're disabled but not to the point of being in a wheelchair, or don't have someone who can push that wheelchair uphill, and don't have a mobility scooter, you ain't getting there
And that's with our current car infrastructure, and just one example out of many of disabled hostile design in our car centric reality that people who've not had to navigate it from that perspective just don't understand. And they never bother asking someone who does experience it. So, I'm pretty tired of hearing the bullshit excuse of how it would be bad for disabled people if we went to walkable cities with public transit.
Stop using disabled people as your gotcha argument
I unironically love the idea of Cripple-Punk.
It’s really powerful if you’re a disabled person too. Learnt some great advice in that community. Stuff like spiked covers for the handles on your wheelchair so people don’t just move you without your consent.
I saw this in Hong Kong, which I know isnt known for its walkability or anything but it has amazing public transport you can get anywhere to, and then it has like absolutely no sits anywhere... if there were they are taken by the other thousands that are looking for a sit hahaha
Asians make their own seat.
right hahaha
My city removed all the benches during covid, but they didn't give them back. So I bought a BAGOBAGO for my parents. (backpack you can sit on)
Typical government. Amiright?
My aging engineer of a father had an idea for a great design that keep getting updated in my head. He said he would like some kind of passive exoskeleton strapped on his legs and pelvis. When sitting though, it would put some springs in tension that would then help him lift back up. I think it could also be designed to have a locked mode to "sit" comfortably against any straight wall/tree.
I wonder how much weight an effective design would add. It would probably need to be made out of some decent material, which would probably drive up the cost.
Aluminium would probably suffice, I doubt it would add more than a kilogram even if made of steel. You need an articulation that can hold let's say 150kg for an overweight person putting all their weight on one leg. It is not a crazy mechanical constraint. Bikes handle more with lightweight structure and more complex mechanisms.
Vancouver has a lot of flaws, but walkability and accessibility are things that it does better than most other big cities.
Dude. I'm 59 and big. Just looking at that picture made my knees pop.
If 3 minutes is too far of a walk you may need a mobility scooter/other mobility aid.
Doesn't seem to work in IB, CA, USA. There are four benches that I know exist, but none are marked.
This uses Open Street Map so if no one mapped them then they won't show up.
I use https://every-door.app/ to map them in my vacinity when I go for a walk. I have already mapped dozens of benches
send tweet
By the time we have walkable cities we'll probably have cybernetic legs and hover mobility scooters
Quickest thing to notice about the part of the town I'm in near the senior center, where the walking trails go through it there's SIGNIFICANTLY more seating and trash cans. There's benches spaced out around the rest of town too but honestly the buses are probably more reliable for that, unless it's a busy day or time and you have to stand there too. Downtown has a lot of public seating too but the spacing is weird and it's just a busy area where that seating might be taken, or sticky, because there's a bunch of ice cream shops over there and people dripping or spilling has become enough of an issue that it's not uncommon to see a "NO ICE CREAM" sign.
Huh?
Sits on the ground
I don't know what's going on here.
If you're like me and have to sit down frequently for low blood pressure reasons, sure. But if you have to sit down for mobility disability reasons that unfortunately just won't do because it'll be hard to sit down so low let alone get back up.
Major cities are a PitA
Three minutes isn't a long walk for an old person either, unless they're pretty badly disabled or such, and at that point they'll have walkers with built in seating, or be in a wheelchair with a carer already.
I agree we need more public seating, and more that's comfortable and not designed to contort you in weird ways. But seats every three minutes walk? That's kinda insane :-P
But seats every three minutes walk? That's kinda insane :-P
... A public bench every block is insane? You sound suburban 😆
Seriously, look at the density of public benches and bus stops and seating areas in any European metropolis or dense urban center. A bench every three minutes' walk isn't crazy. It's normal for any city built for the needs of people rather than the needs of cars.
Where I live, unfortunately, a lot of benches have been removed. Because unhoused people sit and lay on them and our authorities think the best way to solve the "homeless problem" is to take the benches away. Which doesn't help unhoused people and hurts everyone else. Loathsome.
I seriously doubt they removed seats because people were sitting on them.
More likely it was costing too much money.
At least in my city, some people don’t just sit on a seat (or sitable landscaping feature like a low wall). They eat on them, drink alcohol, leave behind food scraps rats eat the food, bottles get smashed, some people even go to the toilet next to the seat, etc. And yes - there are rubbish bins and toilets nearby.
Sometimes it’s worse, bloodstains, fights, etc.
The only parts of the city that have seats are cleaned three times a day and heavily policed with plain clothes officers on foot patrolling the area 24/7/365. That cost wasn’t necessary 10 years ago but it is today. We could go into why but that’s largely irrelevant.
