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Daughters and Fathers

This is a serious question, mostly addressed to the adult women among us but also to anyone else who has a stake in the matter.

What did your father do for you/not do for you, that you needed?

Context: I have recently become a father to a daughter, with a mother whose father was not around when she was growing up. I won't bore you all with the details but our daughter is here now and I am realising that I'm the only one in our little family who has really had a father before. But I have never been a girl. And I know that as a boy, my relationships with my mother and father were massively influential and powerful but at the same time radically different to each other. People say that daughters and fathers have a unique relationship too.

Question: What was your father to you? What matters the most when it comes to a father making his daughter loved, safe, confident and free? To live a good life as an adult?

I'd like this to be a mature, personal and real discussion about daughters and fathers, rather than a political thing, so I humbly ask to please speak from the heart and not the head on this one :)

Thank you

P.S Apologies if this question is badly written or conceived; I haven't been getting enough sleep! It is what it is!

84 comments
  • I don't have much positive examples, but I suppose we can learn from mistakes. Alright, here goes ...

    • You just created a new human. This human to a certain degree takes precedence now. Plan accordingly, don't move every 2 years, give her a chance to grow with her environment. (I can explain this is detail if needed.)
    • If your kids cries, it's probably not because it's an evil manipulator. It does not need to be told to be tough.
    • If your kid consistently gets sick when she has to go to school, don't just send her anyway, check if there's a reason.
    • Be curious! When she says or does something you don't understand, ask. Be open about the answer and don't judge what you hear.
    • Be on her side. If you're taking a different position, explain the why and how.
    • Clean up together, involve her, be a part of it! Show her that men have a part to play in household stuff, teach her that it can be fun to live in a tidy, clean, beautiful space.
    • Your child is not part of fights with your wife. If you want to go to Hawaii and your wife wants Canada, your kid will not be the one to decide.
    • Don't make jokes about or be ironic with a kid. A 14 year old is still a kid, a 16yo is still a kid. Kids are very vulnerable and you're teaching them, that they can't trust you with stuff. Particularly when it comes to love/gender/sex/periods, just don't act like it's funny.
    • Do not comment body shape, not hers, not others, not in general. You have a type? Good for you, but that isn't for your daughter to know or consider. If you like petite dark haired women but your daughter is tall and blonde, she will understand this as her not being pretty enough. No matter how pretty she is or if your wife is just as tall and blonde. Sentences like "All xy-women eventually turn into square shape, it's just how that demographic works" are shitty without you telling this to your kid.
    • She likes a boy band? Great, you can drive her to the gig and pick her up later!
    • She reads teenager magazines because she's a teenager, maybe you want to hear her opinion on this stuff. She certainly doesn't need any condescending attitude though.
    • Maybe sometimes children need to be humbled, but many times life will do that on its own. Consider your own vulnerabilities, before putting them in their place. What they said may sound arrogant, but still be true for their situation.
    • Whatever she wants to do or create: Be supportive! She does not need to be a child genius and you don't need to tell her, that she's not Picasso.
    • "There will only be boys there, are you sure that's what you want to do?" is not in your vocabulary.
    • When she picks a study subject, maybe don't point out that this may be too hard for her. Help her prepare instead!

    You can do this! My list is very long, but ultimately simple: If you lean into your own vulnerabilities and share this with her, a lot of these things will happen on their own. Be open and curious. You can't teach her everything, she'll have to fall on her face by herself. Be there to pick her up afterwards and just keep that up.

  • Don't be afriad to involve her in your stuff, even if it's boy stuff. My dad taught me how to fix cars, wilderness survival, how to shoot guns, how to fix stuff, it didn't matter that I was a girl, if I was interested he'd show me. I didn't care that this was boy stuff, I just liked that I was helping dad.

    With the bonus payoff of me being a rather handy cabable adult too! Although he did his fair share of playing Barbie and tea party as well.

    She might not like all of your hobbies (I never liked fishing) but give it a shot! Don't be afraid just bc some stuck up parents would be agast she's learning to change the oil in the car.

    • With the bonus payoff of me being a rather handy cabable adult too!

      Please extend your Dad my best wishes. I nearly lost my faith in humanity when my two female roommates called me over to change a lightbulb because "electricity is scarry".

  • Don’t be afraid to be wrong and take accountability for your actions. I personally admired my grandpa for telling me this before his passing, there’s no shame in diligently striving for honor.

    Most importantly, fight for those who can’t fight for themselves, you might never see the results of your actions; but you’ll be able to sleep soundly at night.

  • Dad was born in the '50s into a family I can only describe as Victorian. Very rigid gender roles, happy and angry the only acceptable male emotions, and all the "fun" stuff that comes along with that kind of upbringing. I'm in my mid-30s now. He worked a job that sent him out of town for weeks or sometimes months at a time, but where he would often have several weeks off at a time as well so he was either never around or home all the time. Mom was a stay at home mom, but that's about the extent of the gender roles enforced while I was growing up.

    Dad and I had a fairly close relationship until I got to about 14/15 but I did learn very early that he was not the person to go to for anything emotional. He never knew how to handle emotions and - like many people of his generation - he didn't think about the long-term effects that his offhand comments and teasing might have. As an adult, I understand that it was his way of showing affection but it's taken me a very long time to work through the body issues I picked up because of his (and Mom's) teasing about "the family nose/thighs/shoulders/etc."

    We drifted apart when I got to high school. The teenage girl hormones hit really hard. He didn't know what to do with all the feelings I was having so he either ignored them or got angry with me if they inconvenienced him. I never felt like I could talk to either of my parents about what I was going through so I withdrew into myself. Honestly, I was a pretty shitty teenager and my parents were both pretty shitty parents of teenagers (though in my defense my sister was way worse from a much younger age and never really got much better - we still don't get along.) As I got into my twenties and calmed down, Dad continued to treat me like that hyper emotional teenager. I resented that a lot and kept him at arm's length.

    Dad's and my relationship is good now but it took a long time to get here. It took me accepting that he is never going to change and meeting him on his level, while asserting my own boundaries. I've spent a lot of time unpacking the hangups and baggage I carried with me into adulthood, which has given me the ability to get past "Dad is an asshole". Dad was raised in an environment with a lot of gendered pressure, came out of it with severe anxiety - which you can see runs in the family if you know what to look for - and his only coping mechanism is control. When he feels out of control, he explodes. However, being a "man of a certain age" (a.k.a. Boomer) there's no way he'll ever develop the emotional intelligence to understand and acknowledge that. He has no incentive to and has never learned the language. I learned that if I want a relationship with him, I have to be willing to work around that so I do the work on myself and focus on what he and I have in common - which is a lot! It's been a slow process, but I've also seen him finally start to acknowledge and respect me as an independent adult over the last few years and that feels pretty good.

    On the complete opposite end of the spectrum, my partner has a fantastic relationship with his 7-year-old daughter (my stepdaughter). He's very emotionally intelligent and self-aware and has no problem talking with his kid about feelings - hers or his own. He also rejects the idea of traditional gender roles and doesn't feel at all weird about playing dress up with her, getting his nails painted, or any of the other "girly" things she likes to do with him. Neither of us had good parental relationships modeled for us growing up (mine were distant and affectionless with each other, his were volatile) so we do our best to show his kid what a loving, respectful adult relationship looks like. I've often thought that I wish my dad had been a parent to me like my partner is to his daughter.

    I think the most important thing about any parent-child relationship is that the child feels supported, respected, and confident to come to their parent about how they're feeling. That's going to look different in any relationship, but staying empathetic and not assuming you know better than your kid about what's going on in their mind is always a good place to start. It also helps to be self-aware. Recognize where you might have hangups or emotional baggage and be proactive about addressing it. I have done more self-work in the last two years of being a stepparent than in the previous ten. That's not to say I didn't also do a lot in those ten years, but my partner and I both strongly believe that it's our job as parents to do better than our own parents did, even if our parents had been stellar. But no pressure, right? XD

    It's well after midnight and I'm rambling now so I'm going to quit while I'm ahead.

  • I had an excellent father. He wasn't perfect, but his imperfections and occasional impatience made him more human and relatable. Don't pretend to be perfect - let her know that everyone makes mistakes not just by saying it, but by showing them yours. Our world has become better for women to live in, but there still is a silent pressure on women to be flawless. Physically, emotionally, academically, professionally - we are not supposed to show weakness if we are to be taken seriously. Show her it's ok to be imperfect, this will be even more meaningful coming from a male role model.

    And I'll echo what others have said - listen to her. Even if it's stupid ramblings about her favorite band or what a classmate did or any number of things you really do not care about. When she feels heard on the little things she will know she has a voice in the big things.

    Lastly, be honest with her about the world not being fair. This was something my dad maybe could have done better. I was supported and told I can do anything a man can do, but I wish I would have known a little sooner what societal obstacles I was actually going to face. You don't have to make it sound ok or even acceptable, but all girls should know what they're up against so they can be prepared to face it head on.

  • I was closer to my dad than my mom. I think probably because he just seemed to accept and appreciate who I was when I was little. He would take me out for spicy food because he said without that I got irritable; called me a wee anarchist. When I was a teen he'd shave my head for me when I wanted a mohawk. Both my parents were teachers and so both were around and both cooked, etc. He died when I was 16, but I wouldn't trade that for someone else who lasted longer. I wasn't as close to my mom, we were just very different sorts of people.

    I'm not sure it's something you can force, the baby when she grows will likely be more like either you or her mother - if she is closer to her mom, being a good partner is the most important, and being there for if she needs to talk. Based on my individual experience I'd say buy her books and take her to eat at restaurants, lol, but all kids are different so I think the point is more to know her, so that you can do the things together that help her feel more confident being herself.

    Oh - I just realized I also may have advice as a mom of daughters, since I married after having them, a man who was a single dad to his kids before and I see what he does for the girls, though I'm not sure they see it yet. They do see he would do about anything for me and they like that. He will always come pick them up in the car from wherever they are, goes to the school stuff and when the older ones were in college went with me to pick them up, drop them off, etc. Do not badmouth her dad, my husband actually pointed out to ME I was grumbling about their dad in front of them and he was right, don't do that. Just be yourself, love her mom, you will grow to love the kid too.

  • From a woman who's father failed in many ways: Be present, be willing to listen, and actually give a damn. My father wasn't any of those things when I was growing up, he just sorta came and went as he pleased and if he cared, he sure didn't show it. I went NC with him from my teens until my 30s, and we now have a semi-decent relationship, but man, I will be forever jealous of those "Daddy's girl" women who adore and admire their fathers and their fathers love them so much everyone can tell.

  • Everyone says 'listen' but I would suggest one way to act on that advice. This is more of a general parenting advice for small kids (or all kids?).

    Let them choose what to do. If their interested in soccer, give that a try. If they want to learn about ants, let them observe, guide them through the thoughts.

    Play is dictated by their interests, not your expectations or dreams. This way there is much less struggle, save for the times you really need, and learning and play get tied together.

  • For me, it means a lot when my dad can apologise and take accountability for his mistakes. Sometimes he can be very quick to judge, which can feel diminishing, but whenever he comes around and recognises his behaviour it always feels better. It shows me he’s had time to think and reflect on his own personality.

    I guess it’s obvious that spending time and sharing hobbies is important. For example, my dad and I recently went to the cinema together to watch the new Planet of the Apes movie. We frequently send songs or posts of animals to each other. Small things like that are fun. It don’t need to be a full-on planned father/daughter day.

  • Actually being there and staying involved is important. My biodad was a complete POS until last year. My mom was essentially a single mother my whole life because my biodad was never around. He was a really good father for the first two years of my life, then he just kinda stopped giving a shit. I recommend that you don't do that. He used to manipulate tf out of me emotionally and would make so many false promises. His mental health was fucked and he was an alcoholic for a long time.

    I cut ties entirely with him and a few years after that, he reached out to my mom to see if we could talk. He had finally gotten his shit together. He's on his meds and doesn't drink like he used to. I don't see the man as a father, however. I see him as a friend. We text almost daily, but he knows that I don't consider him a father-figure and acknowledges it and all of his wrongdoings. He was only 21 years too late, but that's better than never.

    He is part of the reason I have a very hard time trusting people. He had let me down countless times in my life and each time just broke me. I just couldn't not get my hopes up at his false promises. He was so good at sounding genuine. Now that he's sober and on his meds, I've learned that his truly genuine tone and words are far different than the ones he used when he was still a drunk.

    Anyway, I highly recommend you don't do any of the shit my biodad did. Being hella bitter about your relationship with your father sucks.

  • My wife's father is still peddling that toxic masculinity bullshit on his grandson, saying...to our 1-year-old... To toughen it up.

    My wife about lost it on him. Now that was to our son but for our daughter it would be no different and it's a reflection of her childhood.

    Being emotionally unattached, uncomfortable with crying, and being incapable saying sorry and admitting you're wrong are simply massive. Kids are kids but they have a keen sense of justice and parents should empower them to stand up for themselves and be proud of them for exposing you as a hypocrite... Not beat them with a belt...

    And for goodness sake, play with your kid. She wants to play dolls? Dress you up? Paint your nails? Tea time? By god you do it! If she wants to play with army men (they make army gals, too), go for it!

  • My mother has borderline personality disorder. She regards people as furniture she rearranges to suit her, or she tosses them out of her life and finds someone new, continually blowing through friend after friend. She regards her children and husband as extensions of her will. She's dangerous and violent and manipulative. My father had a group of good friends when they met, and one by one she decided they weren't good enough and eliminated them.

    He just bends to her will no matter what it is. Sometimes he gets irritated and snaps back, but ultimately caves.

    She forced my brother to pretend he wasn't gay for years. She is now doing her best to break up his relationship apparently. I am estranged from them all. She is pathologically obsessed with my appearance, to the point where I cannot bear to be in the same room as her because she's always scrutinizing every millimeter of me, be it negative or positive.

    And he's just forever let her. He knows full well what she does, and that it has permanently cost them their relationship with me. Yet if I talked to him about her behaviour he would just insist repeatedly that she loved me. She most certainly does not. She doesn't love anyone really, she's not capable. Her disorder can only be described as malignant.

    Every year he calls me on my birthday, I have their number blocked but my carrier lets it go to voice mail and he leaves this pathetic message saying he misses me. But that doesn't change that he does nothing to stand up to her or defend me.

    So he was basically pointless in my life. We didn't do anything together, he didn't teach me anything or help me much.

84 comments