Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Lashes Out at 'Predatory' Jill Stein
In an Instagram story on Sunday, the New York congresswoman accused Stein and the Green Party for only putting its emphasis on presidential elections.
Agreed. The Green Party sits on their ass until presidential election. They haven’t moved the needle. Best case scenario, they’ve convinced a few non-voters to participate. Worst case, they’re dishonest opportunists.
This angle also needs to be considered). She’s not running in good faith. She’s essentially functioning as a 5th column to pull away voters who would otherwise vote for Harris.
I’m not saying Harris shouldn’t be pushed on environmental issues. I am saying that trying to do that by voting for Stein is actively harmful to the goal of not letting the fascists win this election.
Fascists and Putin are sure to support her however they can. Cue the trolls.
Most of the greens here on Lemmy convinced me to never consider a green canidate.
I would absolutely vote Green but to do so would be unthinkable until we have ranked choice voting. We should band all the leftists together for one big push to get that enacted everywhere. Once we do that we can go back to our divisive bickering.
The trouble with supporting a third party -- and I say this as someone inclined to support a third party -- is that anybody who actually does it is either (a) an idiot who doesn't understand the game theory of first-past-the-post voting, or (b) an incredibly fringe nutjob. The result is that all third parties absolutely destroy all their credibility and ruin any chance of getting more mainstream.
If you're a third-party-inclined person who isn't an idiot or a nutjob, your only real option is to vote for Democrats in general, and ones who support ranked choice voting in particular (because you sure as Hell aren't gonna get it from the Republicans), and then switch to your third party of choice only after ranked-choice voting is passed.
Libertarians == conservatives who smoke weed
Wrong. http://gpus.nationbuilder.com/officeholders
You're the one sitting on your ass.
The DSA has far more electeds in every level of the government, and they've managed to do it without spoiling presidential elections. It's easy, all you have to do is run through the Democratic Party primaries, they figured it out decades ago, curious that Jill Stein and the Greens somehow didn't.
The Green Party sits on their ass until presidential election.
They hold over 140 offices across 20 states. Seems a little disingenuous to claim that.
Across an entire nation, they have 140 whole offices. They have more people on their party organizing committee than people in office. None of those 140 are even at the level of state legislature, despite there being many races with unopposed Democrats that only have a few thousand total votes cast in them.
The last election for my state rep had 4,000 votes cast. He had a single opponent from a party I've never heard of who got 1,000 of them. There were more candidates running under that low name ID and sparesly funded local party than there were Green candidates. If they were a real party trying to advance progressive causes, this would be an ideal place to build local representation. Single-party state, tons of DINOs to challenge from the left, and low turnout that could make successful challenges possible.
Wow, 143 elected offices is massive. Such prestigious positions as "Neighborhood Council", "Conservation District", "Town Commission", "Planning Group", "Park Commission" (Pawnee reference??), "Select Board", "Zoning Board of Appeals Alternate", "Water District Board of Commissioners", "School Committee", "Advisory Neighborhood Commission", and gasp what's this? The mayor of a California town of 22,000 people? Why if all of them banded together and moved to Connecticut (and somehow became popular with the residents there), they could collectively make almost 77% of an entire Connecticut General Assembly and literally no other offices including mayorships, governorships, all of the other state legislatures and the federal legislature, and all the god-knows-how-many positions in local governments.
That's a drop of LSD in a lake.
I don't think it bodes well she sat with Putin at a conference, whether there was "language barriers" or not.
Oh come on, she had another American there to make sure nothing fishy was going on. The always beyond reproach Michael Flynn.
Putin obviously could give two shits about the planet. He just knew that she’d pull more votes from Clinton than Trump.
I honestly can’t recall if it was some sort of geopolitical analysis in the comments or actual news anymore, but years ago I read that climate change and the collapse of the North Atlantic Current would eventually open up vast areas of Siberia to mining/drilling, improve farming conditions in Russia, harm farming, solar, and wind in Western Europe, while dropping the temps in Western Europe. It would also raise temps in the eastern/southern U.S. and make hurricanes more dangerous and economically damaging along the entire Atlantic and Gulf coasts.
What I read concluded that climate change would be a major boon to Russia and any sensible leader there would want to facilitate it.
Flynn pisses me off so much, it amazes me you can spend your entire career serving your country in mostly a leadership role and still end up a traitor.
Wasn't there a cushy job at a military contractor he could have filled? Or was he so bad that nobody would offer him one?
The fact that the only responses to this picture have always been whataboutisms is very telling. When ranked-choice voting comes, and I think it will, my first choice vote is gonna go to a leftist party with real principles.
So what if they we were at the same dinner? I've had dinner with my enemies too. It seems like a lot of you are imagining much greater nefarious activity than you have any real evidence for, or I am missing something?
Third-party fringe candidate who gets less than 1% of the vote having dinner with Putin, Trump's national security advisor who was later arrested for lying to the FBI about his ties to Russia, and several major Russian political figures before an election in which Russian interference provably helped Trump win.
The US president acting in an official capacity and meeting with the leader of a major world power.
"They're the same picture."
Boy, Russian bots Jill Stein stans are really tripping over each other to see who's the biggest, dumbest idiot, aren't they?
It is admittedly a little ironic that the Greens' existence has likely resulted in the rollback of environmental regulations. It's almost like their top leadership post-Nader is just accelerationist in philosophy.
I trust Greens to protect environmental policies much more than the DNC, they would follow through with their promises and not just spout populous bullshit while doing nothing.
What actions have the Greens taken to inspire your confidence?
I trust Greens to protect environmental policies much more than the DNC
Idk if I "trust" them to do anything, per say. I've never seen a Green candidate assume office.
But the argument I see from Democrats is that you have to vote for the liberal guy accepting kickbacks and sinecures from the O&G industry or you'll get the conservative guy accepting kickbacks and sinecures from the O&G industry, instead. My current crop of Dem-aligned city and state officials are hugely in the tank for the petroleum industry, they've done little more than greenwashing when it comes to waste management and sustainable development in their districts, and they are openly hostile to environmental groups in town.
If the Green Party becomes the refuge for people disillusioned with the O&G aligned local democrats, who is to blame for that? Insidious Machiavellian Jill Stein? Nefarious GOP ratfvckers? The shadowy hand of Vladimir Putin? Or the Democrats who consistently fail to deliver mass transit, waste recycling, and environmental regulation, even within their base strongholds?
Putin owns this lady. You're a dumb, bad, selfish person, Jill.
She just responded to AOC...
The epitome of useful idiot on the left.
Ah yes the tried and true Democrat response to any criticism from the folks on the left
Step 1. Blame Russia Step 2. ???? Step 3. Profit
Wonder where Stein’s money comes from right before elections.
Some people are asking.
Definitely not from the treasury department despite qualifying for public financing.
The green party aka the gop distraction party.
Just look at Jill Steins Twitter. She is basically Gaza and attacks on the Democrats. She exclusivly attacks the Democrats. No attacks at all on Trump or the Republicans in general. She also has no problem with climate change or enviromental problems. That is very intressting for a supposed Green Party.
Other countries with similar electoral systems have Green parties with seats in national parliaments. Compare that with the UK Green Party. They are perfectly able to not just talk about Gaza, but also about UBI, more renewables, public transit, 4 day workweek and so many more left issues.
Jill Stein is the quintessential politician who will say anything to get elected. She will traffic in 9/11 truthing if asked or antivax nonsense in spite of being a pediatrician.
its gonna blow your mind but H. Clinton is not running in the current US presidential election and hasnt been a political operative for 8 years. Tough to digest, I know.
The spoiler effect is a geometric problem within FPTP voting systems, it has nothing to do with weak stances/lack of common interests of a given candidate.
Look, whatever you think of Jill Stein, she can only be a threat to democrats because they are vulnerable to arguments from the left. If you don't want to be vulnerable from the left, adopt some of their popular ideas. Putin isn't tricking Americans into being anti genocide, or into wanting universal health care.
She isn't so much making arguments from the left, but arguments from fantasy land. She thinks wifi is bad for kids brains and that we can stop using fossil fuels AND nuclear by 2030. Most of what she says simply had no basis in reality.
She can only be a threat to democrats in a first past the post voting system.
The Green party doesn't run on its policies. They've opposed nuclear for decades, and we'd be having a very different conversation about global warming if they hadn't basically won there. They have opposed WiFi and cell phone radiation as "cancer causing", and have supported homeopathy. If they ran on their policies, they would find a dwindling number of people on the left who actually support them, because they're vestigial loons concocted in a 1960s hippie lab.
The Green party runs on being the only party on the left that's bigger than almost nothing. That's it, that's all they do.
I know there are plenty of arguments to hit the dems on from the left. However, most of the attacks I'm privy to seem to be more about establishing leftist cred than actually doing something productive, and Jill Stein is one of the best examples of this.
It's not clear to me what you mean here. Are you saying that AOC is attacking Jill Stein in order to bolster her own "leftist cred", or that Jill Stein is chasing "leftist cred" by attacking democrats?
If it's the second one, then I would just refer you back to my previous comment. Any attacks from Jill Stein could be easily defused by adopting a few popular planks. If you actually meant it the first way, then yeah I kind of agree!
If the democrats weren't insisting on holding water for Israel's genocide, the green party wouldn't even be a nuisance to them.
Say whatever you want about how crazy they are, but the one issue the democrats are actually hurting from is their genocide support. If for no other reason than to push the dems to change that policy I think the greens are a huge benefit.
Absolutely right. All the people in my mentions are mad at this fact. I keep trying to tell them that it doesn't matter what Stein's whole platform is, as long as she has a saner opinion than the dems on genocide, she will be an alternative for a lot of people. Her voters know she won't win, but they will not vote in support of a genocide! It's not "single issue voting", it's having a moral baseline.
Kamala and Walz are more left-leaning than any dem ticket in ages. If the purpose of the Green party is to move the democrats left, then they should drop out to reward them for moving left.
The spoiler effect is a geometric problem, a problem of the relative positions of candidates. It has nothing to do with how strong or good of a candidate someone is.
Brilliant, thanks for outlining this. So tired of the Russian / Putins Puppet line from idiot Democrats
Did you know this isn't .ml?
Hurrdurr
If we had a normal election I'd be voting 3rd party because of the Dem's unwavering support for Israel with a genocide happening there. Unfortunately our choice is like choosing between a shit sandwich or pureed cauliflower for dinner. Pureed cauliflower sounds disgusting but when so many people are going to choose the shit sandwich I better vote for Cauliflower so I don't eat shit
What a great idea. Since this country began, a 3rd party candidate has never won the Presidency. And that's because everyone but you understands that in a First Past the Post system, voting for a third party candidate will ONLY ever benefit the party you least want to see elected, whether you are in a "normal" election or not.
Unwavering support < are you a liar or just ignorant? The Dems are the only party with members that DON'T support Israel. The Republicans are the party with unwavering support, and they fucking LOVE it when a liberal throws away their vote.
I wonder how many Republicans read comments like yours and just start belly laughing?
A 3rd party vote is a vote for neither but with a nod toward where we'd like to head. I loath the DNC just slightly more than the old RNC. With the RNC becoming a MAGA party, I could never vote for one of their candidates. When our vote is fascism or a DNC status quo I'll plug my nose like I did for Hillary and vote for whoever the DNC puts up. I'd really like to see the non DNC preferred candidate win the primary in 2028 and have the progressive arm of the party have significant clout.
And yes, the DNC has unwavering support for Israel. What more proof do you need than Biden still sending weapons to them while a genocide is taking place? The Prog wing in the party is a great voice, but they have little clout and AIPAC has been effective at getting them out.
I totally appreciate your sentiment and generally agree, but with the caveat that the problem you're facing is not just a problem with this current election, but an inherent issue with your electoral system.
I always thought a parliamentary system made more sense so we could vote for parties that aligned more closely with our ideals and our ideals for our nation. France is currently showing how the divide between right wing nationalism, the leave it as it is people, and those who want more social and economic equity can still lead to deadlock as much as a 2 party system can. The powerful are so powerful now and our information is controlled by so few, with so little social responsibility or regard for the media as a watchdog over the powerful. They are the powerful trying to keep us in the dark.
This is a good way of putting it.
More like a shit sandwich and a shit sundae.
They both have shit in them, there's just more of it or maybe a different consistency to the shit in the other.
We may be doing a lot of choosing the lesser evil but gd there is such a huge margin between them right now. I am not willing to give a rapist traitor a 2nd chance to damage the country more than he already did. Hell I expect him to try and pull off something right on election day and if not that a Jan 6th 2.0 right after it. Putting the country into a civil war would not bother the diaper wearing orange shit sandwich in the slightest.
I will not at all be shocked if republicans under trumps command try to push election certification to the house while complaining of fraud that didn't happen.
And here comes the parade of Very Interested People to defend their favorite fascist's catspaw and cheerlead for genocide under the guise of "BOTH SIDES ARE BAD"
Wayback machine to the rescue... AOC's 2018 platform:
It is pretty much cut and paste from the Stein '16 platform.
She's accomplished none of it, while having earned nearly $1M in congressional salary. She doesn't even talk about most of it anymore
https://web.archive.org/web/20180703193143/https://ocasio2018.com/issues
She should work harder and maybe she'll accomplish as much as Jill Stein has in congress.
Jill Stein is an autism-denying alternative medicine loving transphobic nutjob.
That's a cool Ocasio-Cortez pose. It sort of reminds me of some Jesus poses from all the biblical drawings (which all come from not the Bible since it didn't come with pictures in it, so they are made up, but I digress)
She wrote in a second post, "Democrats sue to kick us off ballots, hire operatives to infiltrate and sabotage us, lock us out of debates, fight ranked-choice voting, then act concerned that Greens have only won 1400 elections. So which party is authentic, and which is predatory?"
Not wrong. But I still think you're dishonest for continuing to court peoples' votes when you aren't on the ballot in enough states to win.
In her 2017 book, What Happened, Clinton wrote: "So in each state, there were more than enough Stein voters to swing the result."
No. You're just unlikable.
And how many millions of "centrist" suburbanites that voted for Obama but not Clinton get balmed for her loss? Why are those to the left of the Democratic Party line always blamed while those to the right are coveted? Republicans are always turning extreme rightwing positions into mainstream issues, so why cant the left do the same? Either Leftists are an insignificant voting block, or their support for leftist candidates is as sabotaging the Democrats. You have to pick one.
But they are on enough ballots to get 507 electoral votes (out of 538). They don't have a chance of actually winning those, but that's a stupid argument.
Besides, even if they didn't, and by some miracle actually got a few delegates to hold the balance of power, they could instruct their delegates for the party that will enact some of their policies, you don't need to win the whole thing to be effective.
this website made my firefox on mobile crash. twice.
democracy enjoyers when people vote for parties that best represent their interests: 😡😡😡😡😡😡
One might argue that a two-party system (with the electoral college the way it is) is not a democracy
What interests does Jill Stein actually represent for the people? The green party has never held a local office and she only ever pops up during the election for fundraising. If the green party actually did anything aside from campaigning for the presidency, no one would have this criticism.
off the top of my head, she's the only one calling for a full arms embargo of Israel, and also the only one pushing for medicare for all. she has also consistently criticized trump and biden's immigration policies. all of this aligns with my interests, and so she is who I will most likely vote for.
The green party has never held a local office
this is wrong. As of the November 7, 2023 elections, at least 142 Greens hold elected office. I found this with 2 seconds of googling.
No you don't understand you have to vote the genocidal capitalist pig
FPTP systems can hardly be called democracy. Like it or not, the spoiler effect is the problem here.
Lol @ 'predatory'. mfs really think they own all the votes, huh
Well, AOC should probably then run for President and promote the policies that Jill Stein would have otherwise promoted.
That's a congressional campaign website, not a presidential campaign website.
Yeah, we shouldn't have more than one or two candidates in a real democracy. 😵
You didn't actually read the article did you? I am shocked. Shocked, I tell you.
We should, but they need to be American candidates not Russian assets.
Thanks for telling everyone you're a troll so we know to block you!
Does anyone else feel like it sets a really bad precedent to attack anyone running under a different party?
nah she's right. Jill Stein just runs as a spoiler and she hasn't done shit in the meantime. RFK wanted to do the same thing but he was too crazy so he spoiled the red votes more so he quit to openly help the red ticket. Jill Stein is just not as open about it.
Nah. This "attack" is calling into question her work in politics. She wants to be president but does fuck all for years and springs up when it's convenient?
Next question.
does fuck all for years and springs up when it's convenient
Oh I didn't know she was a Democrat.
What have they done to not earn the hate? I don't see them getting any national offices, and you only really hear about the greens during presidential election cycles.
So yeah, they're just a joke spoiler party and deserve to be called as such when they're only really getting national attention on the presidential run with 0 existing infrastructure.
Nope.
AOC states that Jill Stein somehow leads the most decentralized political party in the US, does so from a position that holds nearly zero organizational authority, and that their primary electoral goals are anything other than Secretary of State to ensure fair treatment in ballot access. Stein wasn't even the nominee last cycle.
AOC is not ignorant. She's sold her principles to neoliberals.
This is 100% about them feeling entitled to the Muslim vote and Jill being tied with Harris in polling. The fraud AOC is lashing out because someone is legitimately a threat to them staying in power.
This is the bed Harris decided to make for herself, and if she loses it will be her fault.
Jill being tied with Harris in polling
LMAO
The more you read, the funnier it gets 🤣 what a mook
I'd like to see your source on that polling data, champ. Also, it's so funny you fucks turned against AOC.
Yeah, right? AOC is a bad ass until her party is suddenly unfavorable because some of them but not her aren’t supporting Gaza hard enough. But unsurprisingly, none of these people ever complain about Uyghur genocide—the other Muslims.
It’s easy for Jill to be hard on this topic because she knows the presidency is out of her reach. But AOC is still in play, and sadly—in the actual world we live in—she has to play the game to win.
Obviously they meant "tied for the Muslim vote"
https://www.cair.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/CAIRMuslimVoterSurvey.pdf
This data is echoed by FiveThirtyEight
AOC has always been garbage. As requested
She's also tied with Hugh Janus in polls. It was a real official poll. My source is Trust Me. I am not a troll.
Adding /s
LOL yes I think that went well over the heads of some.
