Lebanon’s health minister says 8 killed, 2,750 wounded by exploding pagers
Lebanon’s health minister says 8 killed, 2,750 wounded by exploding pagers
www.aljazeera.com
Lebanon’s health minister says 8 killed, 2,750 wounded by exploding pagers
247 comments
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None dare call it Terrorism.
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Terrorism, in its broadest sense, is the use of violence against non-combatants to achieve political or ideological aims.
While it's likely there were civilians hurt by this, the target was undeniably Hesbollah. So no, not terrorism.
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Likely because the bulk of those wounded by this attack were not Hezbollah
I don't even know how you'd reasonably expect to only injure your targets in an attack as widespread and remote as this one. Seems blatantly indiscriminate at best.
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Israel is a terrorist organization. Radical, fundamentalist Jewish terrorism.
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Stunning that you're being downvoted. This was a brilliant attack on a group that actually attacks Israel actually indiscriminately on the daily.
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Damn. This must be one of the most terrifying cyber attacks of all time. Like, Mr. Robot level of breach and execution.
In that show they rig the UPS batteries of server buildings to blow up, this is basically the same idea on a smaller scale.
Either that, or they compromised the manufacturer of the pagers and put small explosive devices in there. Truly legendary and insane.
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no way it was just the batteries.
batteries burn but don't detonate with shrapnel
it was altered devices with explosives added.
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Probably not. It was almost certainly the case that these pagers were already connected to explosives, probably to be IEDs. All Israel would have had to do is page the pagers to detonate them. I can’t think of any other logical explanation.
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I don't think the thousands of pagers built this way really count as "improvised."
That being said, it makes me wonder if this went in any way according to plan - 8 deaths and 2750 injuries is a large scale attack, don't get me wrong. But they've now announced Mossad has compromised the supplier of the pager, which they will undoubtedly audit, and instill new policies on device security. I wouldn't be surprised if that means they discover a lot more compromised electronics, allowing Hezbollah to pinpoint the compromise. Because 2750 survived, you now have 2750 people very interested in finding it.
In all, for 8 deaths, they've made their own work harder.
That being said 2750 injuries could be a large enough number to scare members out of the org.
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If those pagers had explosives, I wonder if the explosives were put there as a sabotage or for "destroy if found" functionality
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Yeah, I've been wondering how the fuck they pulled this off. If it turns out that the only pagers that exploded belonged to Hezbollah members, then that would signal to me that this was done entirely digitally.
I've heard that batteries (can't remember if it was laptop or phone batteries) contain the energy of a small grenade, but getting it to release that energy all at once without physical access is absolutely fucking wild and has serious fucking implications for device security.
EDIT: To avoid spreading misinformation, I'm providing this edit to say that the batteries absolutely were not the cause of the explosion. This was a supply-chain attack. Explosives were inserted into the pagers. The batteries in these pagers cannot be made to explode like this. I was overly excited when I made this comment.
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Getting batteries to release energy isn't very difficult, even getting them to release it quickly isn't very difficult. What's difficult is getting them to release it over the course of a few milliseconds. Which is what you would need for an explosion.
If the battery simply dumped all its power over the course of 30 seconds that's basically just a fire that you can run away from.
Also I wouldn't have thought a pager had that much charge, I wouldn't have thought this sort of thing would be possible as they would tend to just go off with a loud bang, assuming you could even get them to release all the energy at once l, which again I wouldn't have thought was possible.
For fairly obvious reasons I don't think we're ever going to find out how this was done.
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I'll save you time. Licensed factory in Europe, making Chinese beepers, was compromised or owned by Israel. They then put explosives in the pagers and set them to explode when paged a certain code.
They knew hezbollah was the purchaser, and would disperse them amongst its members.
I think its stupid unless it stopped some imminent horrible attack. Otherwise, Israel has given themselves away, and only killed 8 people for it. Maybe they had trouble rigging them to steal their communications.
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More like stuxnet level !
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I am surprised the name of the manufacture is not out. This basically raise privacy concern.
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They were on TV over here (Portugal) doing a press conference were they explained the devices were made in Hungary by a company which licensed the brand name from them (a Taiwanese company) so the manufacturer's name (which I totally forgot) is definitely out.
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Its stuxnet like
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That will give a lot of idea to other people maybe soon having a phone on you will be a big risk
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They've done a similar thing at a smaller scale with individual phones in the past. What is different is this time it's not targeted at a specific person and instead involves thousands of devices going off simultaneously. It's not a big risk unless you have nation state level threats up against you because it's hard to pull off, they have to get a functioning device with explosives in it into the hands of the target and the effort involved in doing that is significant.
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and now Hezbollah will be frightened to touch anything at all
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cyber attack ? Lol
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Bibi really wants a war with Hezbollah, doesn't he? I mean you can't call it defending Israels safety anymore when you provoke any and all responses every other month with a missile here, a bomb there and now thousands of bombs everywhere. This is just another measure to keep Netanyahu in a conflict so that he doesn't have to bear the consequences of multiple corruption cases against him and the dissolving of his coalition outside unity cases in a war. Why is Europe and the US still covering for him? What is the rest of Israel doing?
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During the last month there were not 1, not 10, not 100 but 807 alerts in Israel for missile attacks. Some of them weren't fired by Hezbollah, and some might have been the same alert in different areas, but that's still about 7 missile PER DAY even if we assume only 1 in 4 alerts was due to an attack by Hezbollah (side note: during the entire war, about 2,000 missile were launched from Lebanon to Israel, that's an average of about 6 per day). In addition to this, there were 452 aircraft intrusion alerts. Most of these attacks are against civilian targets.
Right now, there are about 79 thousand people (around 0.8% of total population) who are still evicted for nearly a year from northern Israel.
And just in case it needs to be said - the first attack was made by Hezbollah (on Oct. 8th) and without any provocation by Israel.
Not only is this a situation no sovereign country can stand, but it's also a violation of the Lebanon-approved UN Security Council's resolution 1701, that was the basis for ending the 2006 Lebanon War. Hell, just having missiles in the area is by itself a violation of the resolution.
Regarding political reasoning - A war in Lebanon is actually bad for Netanyahu. His interest is a slow-burning war so he can prolong the current situation as much as possible (once the war is over, the pubic will demand an election). In fact, that's probably the main reason you had "a missile here and a bomb there" and not an actual war.
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A war in Lebanon is actually bad for Netanyahu. His interest is a slow-burning war so he can prolong the current situation as much as possible
The current situation is that he's in a war in Gaza and that is keeping him in office. He can still spin this as "we are fighting against an existential threat". Rocket defence and retaliation strikes aka the slow burning war in Lebanon is not enough for the Israeli society to unite behind Bibi. Only if they seriously attack. And I think Netanyahu wants to provoke such an attack.
Sending thousands of bombs God knows where they land is not a proper defense. It's a huge escalation where Hezbollah will answer. I think the best argument against this strike has been thrown around everywhere: What if Hezbollah made such an attack where 3000 bombs where sent to IDF people. We would talk about a terrorist attack. Why is that different now?
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It's war they wanted and it's what they have. Couldn't make it work in 75 years. We've heard enough and seen enough, nobody gets the benefit of the doubt in this. And I'm scared to even post this mild critic will make me an information warfare target. So tired of this shit.
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Hezzbollah literally shoots rockets at Israel multiple times per week. Wtf are you talking about?
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He wants the US at war before the sea change. once elected or close enough to it Harris can change her tune.
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Are they not already at war with Hezbollah?
They've been killing each other pretty much non stop for 40 years.
What's that if not a war?
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Mark my words... us will be helping Israel with troops on this one.
Because fuck American taxpayer pussy.... We got a genocide in Levant to get done 🫡
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I'm no fan of Hezbollah but how is this different than spreading land mines? Even if you kill civilians in an air strike at least you can claim there were enemy combatants there. Here it is just "Eh, we'll just kill people at random and see what happens."
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These were pagers specifically ordered by Hezbollah. Random civilians wouldn't have had them.
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Is this a cyberattack, or pre-planted explosives?
My dad used to have one and it runs on single AA bsttery. It will burn if exploded but I doubt will that make "man fell on the groud bleeding." Newer models might use recharable batteries, yet the BMC (logically thinking) should be sperated from the communication part as charging have nothing to do with it. How are you going to use SMS to hack a part of the system which isn't connected?
If it is pre-planted explosives, that's just wet work and nothing to talk about it.
Of course, the attacker can do a supply chain attack (by threating/hacking the manufacture, excluding explosives) as a stage to make the cyberattack possible.
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NYT has a link up which it claims has been verified. It is a video of someone at a market who had one of these in their messenger bag. The video shows a decent size explosion, which blew a big hole in the bag and knocked the guy to the ground.
I doubt you could make an explosion that big with a AA battery. They must have planted the stuff in some massive supply chain hack.
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Yep, all the electrical engineers who have chimed in say it looks more like explosives.
A battery would get hot and start a fire. It wouldn't instantly explode like this.
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Given how targeted the attacks were at certain people, does this imply a bunch of people walking around with explosives in their pagers, where they weren't set off because they weren't one of the targets?
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Yeah this is what I'm confused about. In a lot of simpler devices like this the BMS is actually a daughter board and has no physical connectivity to the main circuits at all. And even if it had access you generally do not have the capacity to rewrite its code, because again code updating is not something that was ever expected.
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I cannot imagine how you'd cause this via a cyberattack. I'm sure they manipulated the devices somehow. Crazy move though. I struggled reading the first headline (not this one), because I just could not fathom that they mean actual literal pagers.
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Israel might be the baddies...
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Iran’s ambassador to Lebanon, Mojtaba Amani, was among those injured by the pager explosions on Tuesday, Iran’s Mehr news agency reported.
Attacking ambassadors is a great way to become an international piriah.
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Why did he have the pager tho?
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Ambassador, communication device ...
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Hezbollah is a legitimate political party in Lebanon, with millions of voters.
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It just says he was injured, which could happen if you were in close proximity to someone wearing one of the pagers. News here showed one of the explosions occurring in a grocery store, with plenty of people nearby, for example.
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What was ambassador doing with Hezbollah exclusive pager?
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Hezbollah exclusive? Were the walkie talkies Hezbollah exclusive? They are just devices with a specific function
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Talk about working backwards from a conclusion. Can you do the same for the little girl that was also killed? I would be further impressed by your gymnastics to conclude she deserved it as well.
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This is definitely one of the most interesting attacks that’s ever happened. It certainly doesn’t look like an accident. If it was indeed Mossad: take a bow, you’ve earned it. That was a pretty slick move. That was probably a difficult op to pull off. Gotta respect the craft, even if you disagree on the method.
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Its not rocket science how they did it. What is the impressive part? Are we really just going to say civilians don't matter? Is it impressive to you because of how many people were hurt?
In no way is it required to respect the craft or the method.
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I was about to say, they're fucked in the head, but goddamn that was ingenious.
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How exactly did they pull that off? And with walkie-talkies too. There's no way you can do that with normal RF. The only thing I can figure is they had to intercept the devices and tamper with them in some way.
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Hey @oberstoffensichtlich@feddit.org, you were saying that "these were extremely surgical strikes, people in the vicinity weren't harmed"?
Thousands of people injured, all guilty of something ofc, because Israel would never do an attack which might harm innocents. Right? /S
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Israel has a reckoning coming. The mercy they have shown is the mercy they will receive. I wish they would stop.
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Anyone else confused about how these bombs are actually detonating? Articles say they are detonating via a text message sent 3x in error, theoretically causing either a spark or a "closed circuit" like a different article explained. The article (from al jazeera) says they have to look at the message but there's video of one igniting in a bag.
I'm curious because I think these pagers may actually constitute a public safety risk, similar to how heavily landmined areas risk exploding even decades later on someone unrelated to the initial conflict.
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Nothing in an electronic device, save for a very overvolted capacitor, could come anywhere near to as explosive as these were. Even LiPo batteries don't explode like that.
These were explosives planted in the devices when being manufactured.
Not sure if you've seen videos of the explosions or the aftermath.
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Both, al jazeera source says the explosive inside is PETN. What I'm asking is how tf did text messages and whatever in the walkie talkies ignite a spark strong enough to ignite the PETN? Is that true? Or is it possible some of these are still live or ignited in a faulty way? What is the risk to the public?
Afaik such an idea was nonsense previously. Why are we taking their word that this is sophisticated at any level when they've been simply brutal up to now?
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I wonder if we will ever find out who did it
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I wonder how they did it. Was the firmware hacked to make the batteries ignite or were separate explosives implanted in each pager?
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Almost certainly it was explosives. Mossad very likely designed a functioning pager that contains explosives but looks identical to the original pagers and this is effectively a supply chain attack.
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Great, can't wait for the conspiracy theories from this one.
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Isreal wants to start ww3!
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Iran has already started it.
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Oh shit... Let me call the police about this! Sure thing! Right away!
Wait a minute!
LOL! You think I'm that stupid? You call them! Here, take my phone! I'm just gonna go hide behind that 1" thick steel wall! Oh, should we just run over to the station? It's safer that way.
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RIP Taiwanese electronic device export economy.
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Whats scarey here is the amount if energy stored in smart phones. Pagers hold a fraction of the energy and the application here to the smart phone is the same.
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I read in a NYT headline that they were pagers with explosives added in.
Here's the article I saw but didn't read.
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Upvoted for the honesty
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If you see the video there is no way a battery behaves like that, even if you drive a nail into them they more rocket flames than explode (I used to work in a battery lab).
I should clarify, typical cells won't explode, you could defeat safety features for pressure release in a can cell but at that effort they would have just added something more energetic.
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I doubt the lab experience.
Lithium ion batteries do explode, off-gassing and pressure alone can do significant damage when contained. While typically closer to a thermite reaction, conditions determine damage which have been killing people from either heat or poisonous gas. I can point to state occuption work regulators that have a documented case of an explosion while plenty of deaths from battery fires can be found in the news.
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Editing this again because when this story first broke I had assuming that this was a targeted attack on very specific people. I had also conflated Hezbollah and Hamas - and yes, I do know the difference, I just wasn't paying as close attention between work, personal things, and Lemmy posting and made a mistake. And while I don't support their attack on Hezbollah, I was still impressed with what I had assumed was a very targeted attack. But now as more information comes out, this really looks to be no different that if they had sprinkled land mines around someone's home... sure, it might get that person, but it can also get innocent people as well, and that isn't impressive. In summary, fuck Israel. Fuck Hamas. Fuck Hezbollah.
This goes to show that Israel could have taken out
HezbollahHamas leadership at any time... there was no need to raze Palestine other than to move people out so that Israelis can move in and rebuilt.-
Aren't you confusing Hezbollah with Hamas though?
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He did. But the proponents of Greater Israel do actually include Lebanon. They also include Jordan, Syria, parts of Egypt, Parts of Saudi Arabia, and parts of Iraq.
This ideology is dominant in the ruling party of Israel.
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~~Shit, you're right... thanks, I've corrected it because my point still stands. ~~
See above comment.
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Hezbollah is not Hamas.
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They allies.
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Israel has assassinated a staggering number of high ranking Hamas officials, less so for Hezbollah but their leadership has also been targeted
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College campuses across the US/Canada will be holding memorial services, no doubt.
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Nice try. I'm not on that website it'll probably explode.
That's what they have now exploding websites. I think it's a CSS attribute.
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It's a non standard feature, so you have to use vendor prefixes:
-webkit-explode: now;
-moz-explode: now;
-ms-explode: now;
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Hezbollah boot licking much?
247 comments