3mo ago

Whales

World of Warcraft @lemmy.world

GrayBackgroundMusic @lemm.ee

3mo ago

Whales (xpost)

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140 comments

Are the whales the ones complaining? Because the whole concept of a whale is that they are the exception. The vast majority of players pay only the minimum amount or slightly more, but the whales dump so much money in that they are still worth more to the devs than the other 99% of players combined.
- You're right. The definition of a whale includes that he has enough money to not complain about any price at all.
  Except complaining is his kink... Then he gets double the satisfaction from his payments.
  
  A whale doesn't need enough money not to complain. The tactics used to attract whales are meant to build or take advantage of addictions. When I was drinking I would regularly complain about the cost of alcohol yet still spend much more than I could afford on it
  
  Whales aren't people who can afford whatever, so they spend whatever. Whales are people invested enough that the perceived value added is more than the money it costs. Most whales, therefore, are regular people who are addicted to the game rather than moneybags who could easily afford it. So yeah, it does smell of victim blaming. We should be calling out the bad business practice, rather than calling out those being victimized by the bad business practice.
  
  Or the whale is German, because complaining is a national past time.
  
  "price gouge me harder, Daddy!"
  
  buys shit
  violently orgasms
- You know who look like whales? Problem spenders who spend far beyond their means, and are preyed upon by predatory business practices that use psychological manipulation to encourage people to spend as much as as they can. Like, I've literally watched video game developer conference talks where a dev explains in great detail and depth on how to hijack human psychology to milk every last dollar they can. Whales stopped being "those who can afford to spend" a long time ago.
- I've seen whales complain. Maybe not whales, but people who pay for skins and random bullshit
- It's the same as how most airlines operate. The first and business class sections make up the majority of the profit, even though they are just a small fraction of the passengers.
- The whales wouldn't complain about this one anyways. When this mount was available in-game on the auction house it was probably around 5x the price in USD assuming you bought wow tokens.
- In FFXIV, most multi people mounts are paid for, but they did have an event where they have one that can hold 4 people. There is a paid mount that holds 8 people, and it’s a whale. It’s the most expensive mount at just $42. There is no reason you should want to carry 8 people because everyone should have a mount.
  
  Some people mentioned there are some additional features locked behind the specific mount this comic is lambasting. Something about AH and mailbox. I haven't played WoW so not sure how much of an advantage that is, but the closest FFXIV analogue imo is the extra retainers.
  You only have 2 by default and pay an additional $2 a month for any extra. They allow you to basically bot farm some items every 30m to an hour(depends on how below your retainers level the target is) as well as more storage and selling capacity. Nothing is explicitly gated by it, but those who spend the money have a higher capability to earn in game money and/or have greater convenience if they use it properly.
  For those of us who have had extra retainers for years, it's cost us way more than $90, but it's not a single huge purchase so can definitely seem like less in your head if you don't take that one small step of reasoning.
- I think it's mostly the parents of whales who are complaining.
- I started boycotting all paid digital subscription services when World of Warcraft came out.
  So to me; you're the problem. Anyone who isn't boycotting all paid digital subscription services is the problem.
  
  Subscription fees for frequently updated MMOs aren't unreasonable. I refuse to pay them, but I don't begrudge their existence. MTX on top of that are another matter - that shit should only exist in F2P MMOs.
  
  Weird take but more power to you my friend
  
  Wtf are you talking about? The user you're responding to is just clarifying the term "whale".

At this time I'd like to shill for Warframe.
The game is free. The battlepasses are free. The lootboxes are free. The ways you open those lootboxes are also free. The premium currency is a tradable item, so it is 100% viable to get it and buy premium shit without ever spending real money. Digital Extremes (the devs) once accidentally created a gambling machine (for pet cosmetics), and upon discovering what they did, removed it from the game and refunded everyone who spent money on it.
Warframe is the one game that I've spent more money on than any other game, I'm not biased, you're biased.
EDIT: I'm glad that people around here like warframe.
- EvE is similar but with a functional economy including scammers, thieves and general douchebags... And spaceships, is pretty fun but extremely addicting and technical.
  
  The problem with Eve is that you will have to join a big group to enjoy it, and if you join one up, you are increasingly going to feel the pressure to whale if you are a normal player who isn't min-maxing the system. The game is chock full of whales.
  
  I miss having time to play Eve - big fleet battles were fucking epic but I can't dedicate the hours anymore.
  Yes I'm aware there are ways to have quicker fun, I remember faction warfare, but that's even hard to do when you have to drop at a moments notice (kids don't pause well).
  
  man do I wish I was smart enough to play EVE.
- S Tier game
  Don't look at my steam hours
- Just past week restarted the game and I love finding random Tenno in these comments. Hadn't played for a year or more and it's still going strong with exciting new content free for everyone to play. If you're bored of the loot-n-shoot part you can go fishing, decorating, trading, horseriding and whatever else is in the game.
  Also love to look for streamers starting fresh and reliving the awe of the game through them.
- Wait, what was that about the pet cosmetics? I must've been on hiatus when that went down.
  
  At the time, changing the colors and patterns of the fur of your kitty and doggo were tied to a randomized drop, which there was a roundabout way to just buy chances for. Some dude spend literally thousands of dollars just to get his doggo to look the way he wanted.
- I love warframe, but having to level every piece of gear up fills my brain with anxiety for some reason so I can't play it much. The combat loop is pure happy chemical.
  
  there's so much that you can focus mostly on just gear you're interested in. mastering %100 of everything is just not a thing that is reasonable unless you want to sink all of your time forever. It also gets easier to start leveling new gear as you progress.
- I come back every year or so and play for a month or two each time, still haven't spent money on it (but starting to think I should, to support the devs)
- DE absolutely rules. In an era of constant enshittification, it's so nice to have a dev that is actively, constantly working to improve the player experience. From consistent bug fixes and engine optimizations, to little additions like reworks of old frames and new ways to interact with old content, to the massive story expansions like Whispers in the Walls and the upcoming 1999, it's just a great time to be a Warframe player.
  
  remember when coptering was a thing and instead of just patching that bug they implemented a whole new movement system which includes bullet jumping? yeah, another dev would have just patched it out and give a middle finger to everyone who grew accustomed to that level of mobility.
- 100000% with you. Warframe and DE are amazing.
- WF isn't pay to win.
  Its pay to look fly.
  I was playing the first descendant. They had free armor dye giveaways.
  can't use them unless you can a skin
  when you do use it then it's gone. Stuck on that character AND skin...
  Fuck that game right there.
  Color packs cost like $2.50 for a paintjob in TFD and that's like 5 colors.
  Warframe has color themes with a full set of things like camo, smoke or sky. You unlock the pallete and you can reuse it everywhere in your account.
  
  looking kickass does measurably increase my enjoyment with the game
- It's just so difficult ro get back into it, I didn't play for about 4 years because I got tired of playing on Ps4. Tried playing again when I could transfer my save to pc, but didn't even know where to start again. There is too much to do, and little to no guidance.
  
  Hate to say this, but just restart. They revamped the "new player" experience and imo does a decent job of telling you where to go and getting you started. Once you get your bearing again, you might want to reclaim your old account or just stay where you are.
  
  That is the tough part. I'm the sherpa for my friend group, I'll answer questions to the best of my ability until I either pass out or get too drukn to continue, if you feel so inclined to ask.

Remember the Boycott for Call of Duty? And most of them were playing on Day 1.
- This is so bad that it reminded me of reddit protest that I managed to forget about. xD
  
  The worst part was how people that couldnt get off the platform called terminally online to those who could.

The biggest reason of why I struggle to get into any of the subscription-based games, because none of them are only subscription based, they charge you both for the game and the subscription afterward so you have both the price of the game plus any type of expansion packs plus the subscription cost monthly afterward and that's without including any of the microtransactions. I don't know why anyone plays them

Can't understand people who spend hundreds of dollars on virtual shit they don't even own, just a "licence" to rent it. Like how do you spend that much with almost nothing to show for it.
- Me after realizing it's me with American Truck Simulator, buying all those DLC and truck packs.
  Was going say your right how stupid, then dawned on me I have done this....😭
  
  The truck packs maybe but most dlc is map expansions which I don't see as equivalent
- It's no different than spending thousands on travel or hundreds to watch movies at the theater. You're paying for the experience and entertainment, not something physical.
- Isn't that literally everyone who owns digital games? All your shit on Steam is a license to use the software, you don't actually own any of those games.
  I mean, I get the point, cosmetics and such and anything virtual is not tangible in the real world but let's not pretend we aren't all doing that with every game we spend money on.
  Having said that, the amount of money companies charge for some of this stuff is outrageous. Luckily, nobody is pointing a gun to your head forcing you to buy it!
  
  I'm not disagreeing. But there is a difference.
  Steam servers shutting down doesn't mean you lose everything. You can backup your games and play offline. You still have the things you purchased.
  MMOs shutting down and your virtual house and pet disappears, forever. Even if you spin up a instance of that MMO, your account doesn't belong to you and you'll have to start/recreate your character from scratch. Granted, you own the server so you could give yourself everything and be god. But then you still paid a lot of money for literally nothing.
- things can only be enjoyed if you trade money for physical objects then?
  Cuz my partner has gotten many many hundreds of hours of enjoyment from the few hundred bucks they have 'wasted' on things like Fallout76 furniture and stuff. Eventually she will stop playing and 'lose' all that stuff.
  I personally think the many hundred hours of happy playtime is well worth it. It's her favorite way to relax after work. We don't have a lot of space for her to build real castles but she spends sooo much of her time enjoying building virtual ones.
  How is it any different from enjoying nice food or drinks with friends?
  
  I guess if you are enjoying the act of spending money that's good? But like I'm not spending any extra for cosmetics, that money could be spent on having real experiences instead of some bits on a PC that you'll lose access to within a decade. Paying for DLC and extra content is one thing, but to change the look of virtual space for real cash is insane to me! Personally I have more fun when I don't spend stupid amounts of money, but to each their own. When the game is free to play, or close to it you can have almost the same experience as someone who decides to spend the money.

I've completely stopped playing MMOs, but there is a difference when it's an online service. What I consider absurd are the publishers and developers who close down their MMOs when they still have players who have invested and will invest money into it, without even considering selling it off. I'm looking at you, NCSoft. Almost happened to Spiral Knights, and because it didn't, it's still going. It's like they think that people playing them are players that would otherwise playing their new MMOs, when the reality is they avoid those publishers that don't respect their persistence and investment.
There's also a lot of MMO's with no subscription and plenty of whaling. But cosmetics are cosmetics, there's people that can legitimately complain about a $90 dollar mount if it gives an unfair advantage when they would otherwise not mind paying for just cosmetics. But there are people who don't mind unfair advantages in certain games either, as long as they have a F2P model and the devs have a good rep.
Nowadays, what drives me off is the feeling of never getting the full experience, having to constantly feel that way to avoid getting caught in predatory addiction loops they implement, and just being able to buy a full, self-contained experience for what would otherwise be two months of subscription in an MMO.
- The difference mostly is that the old games were games built first and microtransactions second. Slowly creeping up the invasive methods. Which is acceptable for most people.
  However new games have a fully fledged out microtransaction system and shop and the whole game is built around maximising profits. Just like mobile games are.
  It is rare that when you put the money first you will produce a game that is fun. And definitely not possible to make a good one.
  
  I have the strangest hunch that if a large MMO or game with lootboxes decided to make every item available via unlocks for free but make them all immediately buyable now, they'd have a nice business model. The player isn't buying exclusivity or an advantage, they're buying convenience.
  Warframe heard that
  
  The Past "We made this game, and if you like it and want to support further development, we have these small DLC bundles, some skins or what not... Nothing fancy, but we wanna work on new maps to keep the game alive. There's no obligation, the maps will be provided free of charge, we're just happy the playerbase is so enthused"
  Now "We've made a new venue for buying skins, the marketing people call it a game? Look whatever, oh and while some of these skins look unremarkable, remember they're only available for a limited time and those will cost 30% more than normal, but if you don't buy it you'll regret it forever when we take it away, either forever or until the GOTY edition."
  (Seriously: Ban FOMO)
  Seriously it has gotten to the point where games are so content bare that people are talking about the DLC before the main game's out.
  Mortal Kombat 1 made that mistake so hard it had to start giving skins away to try to goad me into playing it again. Great story, terrible gameplay... weirdly the opposite of Mortal Kombat 11... (Maybe it'll help if your big DLC expansion wasn't 2 characters that are literally just genderflipped recolors.... How weird is that Cyrax and Sektor are female now. I mean, normally that's fine whatever, but in the context that Liu Kang created this universe to be his ideal, did he just have a Rule 63 kink for Cyber Ninjas or something? Or did turning the Transhumanists into Transgenders seem like too hilarious a pun for him?)

I'm so happy I don't give a fuck about looking cool or having nice effects in a game.
The only one I ever spend more bucks than I had to is Path of Exile. And the supporter packs give you your whole worth of money spend as premium currency plus you get the usual skins, emotes and tracking tools.
I totally feel that I'm okay with buying functional stuff like inventory space if the system itself feels fair.
In 10 years and around 5000h (only game I play except tarkov for a while) in I spend 122€ so a mount for 90 bucks seems crazy.
- People who think that way are dumb
  But when I sometimes think that way it's cool
  Logic
- The only time I have ever paid for any kind of MTX was for Tribes: Ascend. I bought the cheapest amount of paid for currency (which was $5) just for the permanent VIP status it conferred, which doubled your XP gain to unlock weapons and shit (back before they completely restructured the game and that wasn't necessary anymore).
  I think I ended up using the currency it gave me to buy one of the original Tribes 2 voice sets because it had the most annoying, ear-splitting version of the "Shazbot!" line and I would spam the shit outta it.
  Never again. Even if I like the game, like I did with Ascend. I especially won't do it with anything Hi-Rez makes.
- I'm glad I've always looked down on people who spend money to buy shit in games. If something is only available by paying for it, anyone that I notice showing one off in game gets a "tool" label rather than "cool".
  Which is kind funny because if the game was a bit less abusive and had a way to get that item without paying, that negative reaction wouldn't be so strong because it would be ambiguous. Did this person play the game and get rewarded with that item or did they just throw money at it and get handed it? Can't be sure, so anyone that has it isn't automatically a tool.
  And progression MTX are even dumber. It's like paying money so you don't have to play the game.
  Though the overall quality of the game can play a role, plus whether the items are purely cosmetic vs give in game benefits (aka P2W). If the game is amazing, having some microtransactions doesn't bother me. Like when I pirated games, I had a threshold where if a game was better than that threshold, I'd buy a copy of the game because I wanted the devs to have money. Some MTX are like that, basically a tip jar for a great game.
  But if the game isn't great, it's more like seeing an expectation to tip when you don't think a tip is warranted.

"I can't afford this"
pull out credit card*

Most people who vote with their wallets have long since stopped playing.
- I vote with my wallet by buying indie games or old discounted single player AAA games. This also means I can game on a crappy machine. Being a retrogamer also helps. I literally have more games to play than time to live.

Whales are the idiots who keep the Madden games alive.

I want to see them come out with a literal flying whale mount for $999 and see who buys it.
- I'm sure that would cause a significant portion of the playerbase to react with angry and hurtful messages. Then poor Blizzard would have no choice but to wipe their tears with their massive new pile of hundred dollar bills.
- NOW I CAN SEE THE WHALES
  LOOMING OUT OF THE DARK
  gratuitous whale chords https://youtu.be/eg_OyqkITSE?t=269
- In ESO that would be lore-accurate

The problem with this mount (beside the cost in the first place) is it provides exclusive functionality otherwise not available.
It provides portable access to the in game auction house and mailbox.
- Wow I didn't know that so it's a 90$ cosmetic plus pay to win. Ridiculous.
- Don't engineers have a portable AH?
  
  Nope. If they did, the engineering vendor bots all have long cool downs.
  I did a bit of looking online, to see if there was an AH bot.
  Apparently there used to be a similar mount with the AH, but no mailbox and for 5mil gold. It was removed from the vendor years ago. Anyone who got it then, supposedly still does.
  This $90 new mount is defiantly unique to game. To top it off, some of the sentiment around the original was "I didn't use it as much as I thought I would."

Good to see that Dark Legacy Comics is still not funny after all these years
- A joke so old it has grandkids.
- At least the art got "better".
  Actually, it's ugly as sin, isn't it? The artist probably should have spent more time on the characters hands in the last panel instead of giving his face a tilt. Oh well, at least he's trying.

Acquaintance of mine just dgaf. He'll get banned on a game for cheating and just spend another 60.- to get another copy. DLCs, micro transactions, pay to win, doesn't matter. He's a cancer on the whole industry.

Disgraceful behavior...
Right my Sims? looks to how horribly her game is glitching up due to owning more expansions than Maxis ever intended for Sims 4 to actually have
But for real, the idea of an MMO still requiring a monthly fee in 2024 is ridiculous.
in 1998 when it was a new concept and a lot of money had to go into maintaining the sheer volume of people using servers at a time when the internet couldn't handle more than 20 Star Trek fanboys at once without using up all the bandwith, sure. I could see that.
But in 2024 where even small Indie studios can afford regular free content updates and still make a profit from word of mouth game sales? Yeaaah no.
- I remember the first big MMORPG that was on the internet: Ultima Online. I wanted to play it back in the day, but I couldn't because I was far too young to have my own credit card to pay (and my dad was quite firmly not going to pay) and in the very late 90s, at least where I lived, the internet was still a pay-as-you-play affair, meaning every second you spent was logged and charged on your next phone bill. Sometime around 2000 or very early 2001 the internet got some plans by the company that had us pay a single fixed fee, so I could remain online as long as I wanted without worrying about a skyrocketting bill.
- I'm confused, is this a serious take? How they make their money leads to how the game is designed and who for. If it's advertising it's shit. If it's microtransactions it becomes about min-maxing annoyance for most gamers while attracting whales, gambling and is shit. Monthly subscriptions is a model that needs loyalty and should attract people who want to "live" in an permanent virtual game world.
  Ideally I'd want a global "entertainment subscription" non-profit that is funding projects for the players benefits and is somewhat crowd-controlled like a socialist bank.
- MMO still requiring a monthly fee in 2024 is ridiculous.
  May I point you to Call of Duty on consoles? They are Massive Multiplayer Online (MMO) that needs a monthly subscription (Xbox Live, which owns Cal of Duty, or PS Plus).
  Online gaming has more people paying for an online subscription today than ever before (Nintendo Online included). While the companies being paid for it have changed, monthly online gaming subscriptions are here to stay and have only gotten larger.
  
  That's ok this is a LIVE SERVICE GAME. Definitely not the same as an MMO. Definitely.
  Also I bought that Brutosaur and a friggin love it. Best QOL feature in the game. I don't even play WoW more than a few times a month.
  I now have all services in the game mobile in some way or another: bank, transmog, mail and auction
  
  Uhhh, when did call of duty transition from lobby queuing to MMO?

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALES
- What the fuck did I just watch?
  And where can I get more?
  
  the guy's yt channel? https://www.youtube.com/@shapiro127/videos
  although I wanted to go with my misrembered futurama quote "There aren't anymore. and there never will be anymore"
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGeUfYusTf4&t=19s
  but I remembered the quote wrong

Oh man I haven't thought about dark legacy comics in so many years
- It has stayed funny this whole time. WoW provides a lot of fresh material, even if you're not playing.

Okay, as funny as it is, I don't think the people who are complaining are the ones who are actually purchasing. I am pretty sure that the people who are the majority spenders are not even aware of the hatred on the internet for microtransactions, or even if they are aware, they do not see it as worthwhile concern.
It is easy to get lost in the noise, as many things on internet, everything becomes an echo chamber. But in reality there are a lot of people who thinks it is justified. That somebody is asking for money to deliver a product or a service and they don't care how the equation of "what is worth what " is derived.
For them, its just inflation or expense to cover the cost (basically they take publishers counterpoint at face value, can't blame them honestly), and since it has become the norm, they have given up on taking a moral stance om this and following through

This can only read as hypocrisy when you portray "everyone who plays video games" as a single character

Yeah where's Ahab when we need him?

Meanwhile, in Star Trek Online...

I used to be an avid Plants Vs. Zombies player and I won the Jade League No. 1 spot and earned almost every plant that could be earned and I did it without paying a single dime in real life money. I eventually quit because after you finish the main game and win the Jade League (even once) there really isn't much else for you to do, and when you grind up your plants' exp to the level I got them the games become a sinch.

You're part of the problem.
- That is indeed the joke.

Or you can be the etherium guy: get pissy about in game horse armor and make a vehicle for even worse scams.

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