Chill man. There's loads of types of smart. Some people are great at chess, others have an intuitive feel of how a ball moves in the air, or how musical notes harmonize, or how equations collapse into simple forms, or how color or smell evokes emotion, or how ingredients work together to create pleasant texture and flavors, or how materials fold under the strike of a hammer, ...
Point is, while you may not be smart in one area, there's always areas to explore. Who knows, you may be a savant in your field. Enjoy the journey and appreciate the diversity.
I hate that people don't recognize the depth of what intelligence can be. You alluded to athletic intelligence, but there's so many more. Emotional intelligence is a big buzzword, but just being a kind person is a reflection of that type.
Some of the most insufferable people I've ever met are "smart" but holy shit would I prefer to spend my time with someone else.
I don't think there is a great way to quantify intelligence, but IQ and MENSA ain't it. And chess is just boring. I'm not good at it because I don't want to be.
Some people are very smart at writing smart things like you !
Thanks, friend. I really needed that in light of the recent news.
You don’t. If you’re even entertaining the thought that there is more to learn than what you already know you are displaying intelligence. Stupid people “know” they’re NOT stupid and intelligent people constantly question their own intelligence. This is why a grown adult with the reading age of a 12yr old can spend twenty minutes online and become the world’s foremost authority on… 5G, vaccines, international geo politics, chemtrails, why the Nazi party were “ackshully” socialist etc. etc.
I know somebody who is great at chess, but thinks covid was a hoax, vaccines are fake, Musk is a genius and Russia has a right to Ukraine.
We're all capable of being a dumb-ass while having something else we're good at.
What is smart.... I mean, most of us Lemmy tech people are good at computers but completely useless and may even despise other activities such as dancing, singing, acting, psychology, and so on.
Never forget that the school system evaluates how good of a worker you can be, not how good of a human you can be. The ensure system is just built for economic growth, not your happiness. In fact, you consume more when you are feeling like shit.
If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its life believing it’s a failure.
Yeah but I can’t even figure out how to breathe water
Being bad at chess doesn't mean you aren't smart.
Doesn’t mean you’re not smart. People’s brains work differently. Some people enjoy thinking five moves ahead, or memorizing standard plays and reactions. Other people are good at math or chemistry. Talents aren’t an “all or nothing” thing.
I was tested as a child and had an iq of 164 at 10 years old. For my entire childhood every adult treated me like I was smarter than them and in most cases I was. I was in gifted and accelerated classes and excelled.
I know I'm not smart because from the headstart in life I got I went on to barely graduate from high school, drop out of community college twice, never hold a job for longer than 18 months, and have more gaps on my resume than experience.
Sounds a lot like ADHD.
It is! Or at least what a previous therapist thought.
There are multiple kinds of 'smart'. The following section in Wiki breaks them down into IQ, emotional, social, and moral. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence#Human
Historically, a lot of 'high IQ' people didn't necessarily 'fit in' to society. See the story of William James Sidis ... 'He entered Harvard University at age 11 and, as an adult, was claimed by family members to have an IQ between 250 and 300'.
Also historically, people smart enough to see that a lot of the world is about shuckin' and jivin' and not giving a crap? may not be not interested in playing the game. Some find other interests and don't see the point in 'accomplishing' things that will mostly be forgotten. Ramanujan had a HUGE talent for math ONLY, unrecognized until he wrote a professor halfway around the world.
That's all because you're bored. The world isn't geared for genius level intelligence.
Boredom is a lot more dangerous and potentially disastrous than most people realize, but it's definitely not my only problem. I struggle with some mental health issues that make most things a lot harder for me than many other people.
or even... I'm slightly above average, they put me in honors classes etc. functionally because I played Magic School Bus games as a kid and showed up to 2nd grade already knowing what an herbivore was, I got more boring homework to do for my entire adolescence. Whatbreally doomed me was "academically gifted" math class was just skipping a grade and my math performance never recovered.
Calculus III kicked my ass.
Calculus in general is beyond my ability
I was good at math until Cal III when I hit the wall. I've forgotten almost all of what I learned, though. So I'm not really good at math anymore. Unless you enter certain career paths, most people won't need to use advanced math in their day-to-day. I bet you're good at some non-math stuff.
Cal III was fun it was just a bunch of multivariable differentials. Cal II though sucked thanks to all the integration processes.
People smart enough to realize how much they don't know are most likely to think that they aren't smart... and it takes a certain level of intelligence to do that.
Something something Dunning-Kruger Effect. Dumb people who know very little about a topic will tend to overestimate their knowledge about said topic. As you gain more knowledge about the topic, the more you realize you don’t know, and the less confident you are about it.
In extreme cases, it ends with the person having Imposter Syndrome. When a person is very knowledgeable and experienced in a certain topic, but believes they aren’t qualified enough to be considered an expert. They feel like an imposter who will inevitably get outed by someone more knowledgeable than they are. So they have a lot of anxiety about speaking on the topic, because they’re afraid it will result in them being outed as an imposter.
I'm smart enough to know that everyone is both smart and stupid.
I'm stupid enough to believe that doesn't apply to me.
On chess, there is a moment in 2001: a Space Odyssey wherein HAL and Frank Poole are playing chess. A more attentive person than me pointed out HAL cheated. I paused and looked at the board forever. I almost gave up. I thought I would never figure it out. Finally figured it out! I have never felt so smart for wasting so much time.
I live on the Earth, home to humans. Every human I've met, heard, or read about has been pretty stupid about something. I can't imagine that I'd be the sole exception, so if I had to guess I'm not smart.
More to the spirit of the question, for me it has to do with programming. I love programming, I went to school for it and learned a ton. It really covers a wide breadth of applications, and you can make anything happen with a computer if you're determined enough. And, like any field, there's general knowledge as well as deeper specializations.
If you're not into programming, know that there's a divide in every application between what's called the Back End and the Front End. The front end is what the user interacts with, and ultimately is an interface for the back end which actually runs the application.
I don't know if it would still be considered accurate, but in school we'd joke about how the back end is more complex (more services to integrate with), and the front end is easier because it's all about look and feel. Generally speaking, people develop an affinity for one or the other and then further specialize based on that.
I can't seem to pick up a front end framework to save my life. The thing that the self-described smart kids called easier is wayyy more complicated than it looks. I have a lot of training, I'm skilled in multiple languages, and I can whisper the secret words that open up the database. But I don't know if I could Hello World my way through a React app if there was a gun to my head.
one of the smarter folks of western civilisation history said "i know that i do kot know" so maybe asking yourself whether you are or are not smart is all it takes
Last week I moved the cheesegrater so I could look behind it... for the cheesegrater.
I'm likely average, middle of the road intelligence. Smart enough to get by and dumb enough not to excel at anything. I know a little about a lot of things and not a lot about one thing.
My brain insists on telling me so several times a day so nowadays I just roll with it.
Many of the things that really matter to us are fundamentally beyond human comprehension. We cannot understand ourselves, society, our place in the world, the consequences of our actions, or the laws of the universe, and we rarely agree or cooperate with each other.
Everyone is smart about something but dumb about most things
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Any position I hold is toppled over with the slightest argument unless I have very recently done a ton of research on the topic. I have zero ability to recall whatever evidence I used to come to a conclusion. It's incredibly frustrating because I do try to be informed about things but I just can't defend anything at the pace of a normal conversation.
Not really an answer to your question, just wanted to say intelligence isn't a one-dimensional thing. You can practically be a master on any one field but lack basic abilities in accomplishing what other people do every day. Or the other way around, you're not particularly good at one thing that's commonly attributed to intelligence, like chess or maths, but be highly intelligent or skilled in other things. And for me that includes social intelligence, being able to remember a lot of stuff, being handy or having a grasp for music, or anything. I think I'm alright in various things. But I regularly observe people being very good at something. Like scientists and I can barely read what the math even does. Or the lady at the bakery who remembers things about the personal lives of like >200 grandmas and which kind of bread they buy every week. In turn, I know like a 200 facts about Linux networking. But I couldn't do what she does, even if I tried.
Oh you think you're smart? Name every chess move
En passant is all you need
Because others have gone out if their way not to be reliant on me specifically.
People never let me plan things, people treat me like a child, people always ask other to double check only my work, etc...
The worst thing is its a positive feed back loop. People think you're dumb and don't give you any opportunities, less opportunities means less experience, less experience means you appear less competent, being less competent makes people believe you're dumb.
I don't know which people you are talking about, but if it's adults and you are a kid, then there are some reasons behind that... :)
My kid planned a trip to Croatia with his friends and they managed to book flights that made them spend the entire night at airports, because they wanted the cheapest price.
Counting in that they had to buy airport food and hardly slept at all, and came home wrecked and had to sleep all day, meant that not only did they pay more for the trip than directs flights would have cost, they also lost a day when getting back to sleep and rest...
I mean, it's fine, but it shows inexperience and unwillingness to listen to adults who may have good ideas... :)
At the same time though, this kind of thing is the best sort of learning. Take your assumptions and make a theoretical model, go out and test it, and learn first hand what elements you didn't account for.
My opinion is that once your kids hit a certain age, your role is more support and providing guidance to avoid/recover from really bad outcomes (see: if your son's plan had a flaw that would've left them stranded. They made it there and back, if exhausted and slightly [but from the sound of it not unrecoverably] poorer. Shitty, but they probably learned some valuble lessons.)
Edit: This may just be copium from my own "I'm gonna move to the middle of a different province with my homies" adventure that left me with just enough cash for a bus ticket to supportive family if I survived on Corn Flakes for two weeks. Ah, to be 19 and know everything again...fuck that would suck.
There are different kinds of smart. A person can be quick and creative at something (math, mechanics, music, marketing ...), and less so at everything else.
If the something is -complicated-, then a lot of learning is needed, and a good qualified teacher will help you sort out what is really important to know. Chess is complicated, and you need to learn basic strategies of how to move and not get eaten alive. There are some books that can help with that. But a human teacher can get you there a lot faster. If you're really motivated but you're not remembering enough? it may not be your 'something' !
I know I'm not smart because I seem to have trouble retaining and/or recalling information. I'll understand the concepts then, but fuck me if I try to recall it months later. Also I remember things wrong, my partner (who has an excellent memory) calls me out on it all the time.
Have you heard of Dual N Back? It's a game that when done consistently can improve working memory by 40%
Intelligence is not easily quantifiable (dont you dare get me started on IQ) so its pointless to worry about how you stack up in one area. Ive met a genius nurse who cant spell restaurant without spell check. I know engineers who cant visualize a 2D drawing in to 3D space. I think im pretty smart, lots of conceptual thinking comes naturally to me but I hate chess. It doesnt make sense to me. I suggest thinking about what you are good at, rather than what you're not.
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Believing that you are smart, is the first sign of not being it. Even the smartest people will admit that they are mostly good at maybe a few areas, and at best average at everything else.
If you are smart, you know that you really aren't smart
I am wise and intelligent.
I tried to help my little cousins w math homework one time and had no idea wtf i was reading until i reread it twice or something.. theyre like 13..... math never been my strong suite really😅
Spelling doesn’t appear to be a strength either. ;)
Structurally I know how things should work, but sometimes trying to program it tho...
I know I'm not smart because I often need to do the same mistakes several times before i get it
You've gotta make the same mistake two or three times, just to make sure 😉
It's the scientific method! Trial by repetition!
I'm visiting my elderly father this weekend and he told me last night that he remembers when he and my mom took me to the doctor when I was like 2 or 3 and I tested positive for high amounts of lead (not lead poisoning, just a high amount), and now I'm like damn, maybe that explains why I suck at a few things...
I would say I'm legit dumb though. I maintained a 4.0 GPA in college and I get by just fine, but now I'm like "do I suck at math because I was exposed to lead as a child?"
If you had a 4.0 gpa in college you're probably not dumb
I'm a designer. I work with engineers.
I'll stay a designer, lol.
There are many types of cognition. I don't feel I know much more than how pieces move but certainly I look at the board and possibilities. Some of it is spacial modeling and some is a sort of logical progression. That being said people that have particular chess gambits memorized. well that is just memorization. There is also talent and such to consider. That being said when you personally know somone who is good at some particular thing. Its sensible to follow their lead. I know folks who I would take their medical advice above others and others where I trust their economic viewpoints and others for their scientific.
Being confused often by people and not being able to apply yourself to simple intellectual tasks would be good hints but they could also indicate other underlying disorders and atypicalities different from intellect.
This is further exasperated by the fact that most people specialize in one or more brainy tasks such as mechanical visualization, language comprehension (spoken and/or written), rhythm, mathematics, etc.
There are also behavioral differences that are judged as more or less smart depending on the person. For example, is selfish self serving actions smart or stupid? Do we prioritize long term satisfaction or short term? Does a smart person care about betraying trust of others?
TLDR: Idk man, its real hard to tell, dude
Adding on to what many have already said to give it a name: multiple intelligences
I have been always terrible in maths, and this deficit represent imho a major obstacle in getting a decent job these days.
[off topic?]
The book 'Starship Troopers' is a lot different from the movie.
In the book the Bugs have space ships and other tech, so it's obvious that their leadership in intelligent. The question is whether the soldiers in the field are thinking for themselves or just genetically programmed to fight.
The narrator opines that if the Bug can kill you, that makes it smarter than you.
I also know how chess pieces move, other than the rare en passant, but will lose to anyone willing to challenge me and I don't think I could get much better than mediocre with any amount of practice. However, I got full marks on a Mensa IQ test so I'd say I'm intellingent in a way but with my mild autism, likely ADHD and lack of practical skills, it's hard to tell. I have done lots of stupid decisions IRL, often repeatedly.
Would I say I'm "smart"? Depends. Intelligent, probably. Wise, hell no.
The answer to the "chess" thing is "yes, you will get better if you play it for long enough". It's a lot about pattern recognition and the things you've seen in the past. There are certain rules to follow that help a lot - but someone needs to teach them to you first. It's like saying "I suck at crosswords, I will never be good at them" - yes you will, with enough done you'll start to see repeating "crossword words" that keep being used over and over.
Edit: also for the life thing - it's the difference between wisdom and intelligence.
You have to study strategies, that's how people get good. You won't be a match for anyone read.
I was told smarter people are more likely to be cursed with things that count as mental illness.
I suck at maths or anything that has to do with numbers. But besides that, so many do say I’m intelligent. Though tbh, I’m far from it lol, there’s so much I need to learn about and the list just keeps building up so I guess it ain’t a bad thing after all. It’s just I’m always willing to open my eyes to new things.
No idea, I'm just here to chill with da boyz
There are very different kinds of "smartness". The currently favored (by most modern societies) kind weighs logical and structured thinking very heavily, that doesnt mean someone "isnt smart" if they dont possess those qualities. Also, chess does not even rely on the commonly referred to "smartness" that much. The most important aspects are long term memory ( for remembering situations from games and acting accordingly)and thousands of hours of practice.
