PayPal Honey steals affiliate links and lies about finding the best coupons
🖕 Fuck PayPal
And fuck Linus Tech Tips for intentionally keeping quiet about this after they found out.
I said it in another post: if you see a bunch of influencers all suddenly peddling the same stuff, stay away. All of them can be bought.
Or, just don't trust ads period
Do your own research
Especially anything from Linus, they’re a very scummy group.
Am I the only one who, upon seeing his videos for the first time, immediately thought he was an annoying little pinhead?
Like, I've watched his channel(s) surge in popularity over the years, and this entire time I've just been wondering why, and the issues that have come out about his little empire since have only confirmed my initial prejudice.
What annoys me the most is since his last drama, Linus HAS to be the face in every video now! Wtf it used to be a bunch of them took turns making videos, and it was fun seeing everyone work on different things. He has to be front and get all the attention, it just feels weird now.
But I really enjoy watching Techlinked :(
Especially anything from NullDrive, they're a very scummy group.
I have a built-in spidey sense that hates any product that gets peddled simultaneously by a bunch of YouTubers.
See also: RayCons headphones, which appear to be unilaterally bullshit but were on absolutely every video for a couple of months, touted as being the very best.
They whore for corpos, that's who pays them
Some do good work but got to assume they are an enemy until proven otherwise.
I never trusted Honey to begin with but this goes far deeper than I ever expected. I always wondered "yeah, but where do they get their money?" I always figured it was just a way to take people's data and sell it to data brokers (which they probably also do, let's be honest) but this is just blatant fraud. Stealing affiliate money from links and having companies pay them to purposefully give out worse coupon codes is just devious through and through. It's basically free money and everybody else, whether influencer or consumer, get fucked over in the process.
Yeah I always wondered what the catch was? The CEO was always posting on Reddit trying to defend honey and how cool they were.
Either way, I never trust any shopping deal plugins. The whole idea of them is sketchy.
Only shopping plugin I use is the one that comes with Edge. Surprisingly good to track price history and find other sites selling the product. I considered some Chrome plugin that displays an Amazon product's country of origin to avoid Chinesium but apparently it didn't work well or something like that from reading the reviews. Had some attached rewards function for shopping with it, ick.
I use this extension to get a general idea of whether a product usually goes for cheaper and whether or not to wait. Really conveniently on the Amazon page directly.
I always assumed it was a combination of your guess and companies giving Honey special coupon codes so consumers are more eager to spend.
"Hey Honey, we'll give you 1% commission if you just host this HONEY5 coupon for 5% off."
That was my impression when I used it once. Wasn't worth having an extension just for a slight discount. Love when a company doesn't fulfill the service they advertise.
But that would be an ethical business model, we can't have that, this is PayPal and this is the internet. There's no place for ethics in that combination.
everybody else, whether influencer or consumer, get fucked over in the process.
Enshittification correctly defined.
Same. I never downloaded it or anything like it but I didn’t realize they were playing both sides. It’s fucked.
If you're sitting at a poker table and you can't tell who the sucker is, it's you.
Alternately, if you look at an online service and can't tell what the product is, It's you.
And even if you can tell what the product is, it‘s still often you. “Premium” subscriptions for example might hide (some) ads, but services still collect as much data about you. Even grocery stores where the offer seems obvious are trying to bait you into installing their apps to collect data on top of charging you for every item. And sure it’s not relevant in this case, but it’s something we should never forget.
By that logic, linux users are the product.
Yeah, I feel like that's usually a very accurate saying, but it doesn't really work with a lot of open source projects.
I hate that you're getting downvoted by so many people who don't realize you're pointing out an exception to the rule, and instead think you have some fundamental misunderstanding about how Linux works.
Linux is neither an online service, nor a business at all.
No? The OS is the product.
I mean, yes?
The key difference is linux wants you to help make it better. Something like Honey steals your data, and steals money from others, and then wants you to make it better.
Except Linux has proper legal underpinnings that anyone with a few brain cells can verify.
You can compile your own code too
Hence why people always say do your diligence
A useful question to ask when hearing about a new company is "What's your business model?"
There is no such thing as a free and benevolent product with an advertising budget.
Real as shit. I know idiots who think apple pays people scaling on how many downloads their app has xD (kinda like yt views)
"Where are they getting money to pay for sponsorships and what are their motivations"
Ever since it was explained that Mr. Beast only smiles with his mouth, I get skeeved out every time I see him.
Mr Beast literally shadow banned the word teeth from his YT comments. It's hilarious.
It's a shame too, I really miss all the great tooth related discussions we used to have there.
Oh... THAT's what's off!
I used honey for a while and it was working great for me with "exclusive" coupons and Cashback and then one time I bough a cellphone that was supposed to have $250 cashback. I did all the necessary steps, read the t&c, took screenshots of the offer and made the purchase. I never got the transaction to appear on their website. Sending emails it trying to contact them was futile (I even made an automatic script to send an email everyday to follow up). Fuck PayPal
Small claims
I'm so proud I never consumed these guys shit
Was it all that surprising to you though?
By the time honey hit the scene we had been ten years into "sketchy Browser extension that monitors your browsing habits and injects ads"
I guess getting flogged by your favorite influencer ads a veneer of legitimacy for a lot of people.
I think what was truly surprising is that they were bought for 4 billion.That much money for... basically an out and out scam. Paypal is that sure that it's:
You guys think Rakuten does the same? I have got so much money from them.
I never trust browser extensions outside of a select few. However, I have used Paypal quite a bit. I would think many of us have.
I avoid PayPal categorically
Seriously.
I thought it was just collecting and selling user data but while I'd bet it's still happening - wow, this is way craftier.
I haven't trusted LTT for about 5 years now.
Agreed. I remember enjoying their workshop videos a long time ago, but they can't even be trusted for PC building info, much less anything else.
PayPal is not customer friendly, they also straight up steal funds by locking your account
Yeah, it's wild how close PayPal came to killing Minecraft early on by locking all of Notch's money as soon as MC started to take off.
PayPal is not a bank. Your funds are NOT FDIC insured, no matter what their docs say.
In certain countries they fall under quasi-bank regulations eg. "PayPal Australia Pty Ltd (PayPal) is a limited Authorised Deposit-Taking Institution (ADI) with authority to provide purchased payment facilities (PPFs)."
That gives some measure of protection on how they handle your funds, but holy shit I would not keep any money in a PayPal account for any longer than absolutely necessary. I use it as a convenient intermediary between my actual card and sellers, no more than that.
PayPal is a class corpo parasite. They tax us
What to expect from the Musky one and the Vampire?
Yep, happened to me. They're evil. They own Venmo too btw.
If something advertises on youtube it’s a scam. Simple to remember really.
I don't mind things that are an actual thing to buy. I want to research it first--you can get a better electric razor than Manscaped for not much more--but at least it's clear how they make their money. Honey was obviously getting money from someone other than their users, and that's an immediate red flag.
I and many other people naturally assumed that honey was getting their money from consumer data collection. Which is why I didn't use the service myself. The surprise is the fact that the scam isn't just consumer data collection but actually stealing commissions from content creators as well as using consumers as a gateway to stealing money from businesses that they have contracts with.
Yeah. PayPal bought a coupon browser extension for how much? If the only thing they do is save YOU money, how come they can afford a sponsored segment in a mr beast video?
This isn't even remotely true. There are lots of advertisers and sponsors that aren't scams. But unfortunately our consumer protection laws haven't quite caught up to the digital marketplace. So there is a lot of room on the internet in general for scammy behavior.
As always, it's buyer beware. As well as a big amount of content creator beware as well.
That’s why I did not buy an eco flow or jackary. Too many influencers was a turn off. I went with BLUETTI.
Is nebula also a scam? I saw it sponsored on lots of youtube channels.
Just open their privacy policy and done. They sell your browsing info, and you could stop it there
Just saw a video that the honey people are making another SCAM called PIE. They make an Ad blocker, then put their own ads. wtf.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/VTxnM3J0I0k?width=828&height=466
Linus Tech Tips really is scum. Yet more proof of that.
Same person that said ad blocking was the same as piracy.
edit: People downvoting me like I disagreed with him. Just saying how he looks at it. I think it’s a bit of a false dichotomy but they are definitely similar.
Have you ever heard his full stance on the matter? Because he clearly stated that this is not a judgment against using it. Heck, he's been open about having sailed the high seas himself and still doing so for media he physically owns.
It's just that gaining access to media while circumventing the payment (ads in this case) is basically piracy. Which is fair.
Signed, A uBlock User
It…is? You’re copying digital content without paying for it. I use uBlock but I don’t pretend to have the moral high ground.
It is. Taking from a service without paying for it, and actively avoiding the service making money via advertising is basically the same as watching a film without paying for it.
Both ways, you consumed a service and the people providing it got nothing, but it cost them something to create and provide it.
They are similar only if you presume there is an agreement of content in exchange for revenue from adverts. If you view the internet as a place for open collaboration, or oppose (internet) advertisement, then you wouldn't presume that agreement and it looks very different.
OP isn't exactly giving you the full story there. I know for a fact I've seen a video on this. I remember thinking at the time "well duh".
It was a matter of time until the public found out about this. They couldn't think in the long term, by not accepting a bit of backlash, exposing the scam they unknowingly participated in they only opened themselves up for more later.
They are not only evil, they are stupid too, which is worse.
Ltt didn't hide shit, they posted it on a public forum
They didn't hide it, but a huge portion of their audience doesn't read the forums. A 10 minute video of Linus ranting about them would have opened this scandal to a wider audience years ago.
Linus usually likes to rant about it on the WAN show then they usually make a clip for YouTube, but weird he didn’t do that for honey, maybe he didn’t know how far the scam went.
And then they took sponsorships from Karma which does the exact same thing
There may have been non-disclosure agreements between Linus tech tips and PayPal Honey. They may have threatened to sue him if he went public. I'm assuming we'll find out the details in the next few weeks.
Yeah, that not nothing but it isn't far off. They have a massive platform. It deserved at least a video telling people about it.
Some very vocal people on Lemmy just love hating on LTT. I don't think this topic was worth them making a main channel video on, I think their forum post was good and I believe they even mentioned this functionality of Honey a few times on the WAN show. It wasn't a secret, and anyone who cared to do in-depth research on a potential sponsor could have found out.
And yet here's the scandal being exposed TWO YEARS LATER. Yeah, LTT couldn't possibly have handled this better... /s
They could have been exposed to legal liability to report on a business partner like that.
[Added information: LTT say they were unaware Honey was mistreating users. So they had no reason to make a video at the time they dropped Honey for mistreating them.]
I don’t think this topic was worth them making a main channel video on
Their viewers getting scammed by tech they promoted isn't worth a video on their main channel? If they could legally do it I think they should have.
Some very vocal people on Lemmy just love hating on LTT
LTT have made mistakes (edit: and made choices/comments I would disprove of) but the dunking here does seem disproportionate.
If only they had some medium to post the information, perhaps a medium that that VAST MAJORITY of their viewers use.
“But the plans were on display…”
“On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.”
“That’s the display department.”
“With a flashlight.”
“Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.”
“So had the stairs.”
“But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?”
“Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.”
Their complaint was that honey inserted their affiliate cookie even when they didn't find a coupon code for you. I doubt they knew the full extent of the scam.
Plus, we don't know what was in their contract with honey. They could still be subject to a non-disparagement clause.
I knew this was Douglas Adams by the tone but had to look it up to realize it was Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Time for a re-read!
Pretty sure this was already posted yesterday when it came out. Or it might have been a different community.
Watching the full video is important though because they are scamming the consumer too, not just """influencers""". Someone made a great comment about how it's just one greedy troll stealing from another and has no effect on the consumer since they still save money but Honey not actually giving you the best coupons on purpose is next level dickholery.
Lying about the coupons really should be the focus so people stop harming themselves using Honey.
See, I'm torn. I've never used honey, so I was never scammed. However I do think them scamming consumers is awful.
Buuuuuuuut, I DO enjoy the fact that they scammed influencers.
It's also kind of a protection racket against shops. "Partner with us or we'll cut into your profits by spreading cheap coupon codes, but partner with us and we'll protect you"
I used Honey before thr PayPal purchase and it did have working discount codes, as well as a cashback thing that I redeemed a couple times. But I haven't had any codes work for a long time.
I don't have any love for influencers but they have the right to make money IMO, and it's completely shitty behavior for honey to be taking that away from them.
I never use affiliate links AND I don't bother looking for coupons (let's be honest, who does?) so I don't give a crap, every now and then I'm saving money without taking it from anyone 🤷
idk, I find the coupon thing to be super easy. Just takes one search and maybe two clicks if you have ad blockers on. Mostly the only time is if I'm ordering something like pizza for a get together where no special applies. There's a local chain in my state that had a coupon code for half off my order that wasn't listed on their site (they might've given it to me if I called but who knows). Been using that for the past year and it allows me to convince everyone to go there instead of a national chain. I've also been lucky with some manufacturers coupons for products I'm ordering straight from them, it's more rare though so it's hit or miss sometimes.
I just look up price trends and that’s pretty much it for me too. Coupons rarely ever worked for me in the early days of e-commerce so I quickly stopped bothering.
I respect coffee but he said nice things about MrBeast who is known to hire pedophiles and sexual pests
Why do I feel like mentioning the LTT was very personal?😂
They're one of the largest tech media companies and deliberately chose to sweep this under the rug instead of reporting on it. Then they took sponsorships from Karma, which is a competitor to Honey that does the exact same thing.
LTT says to have not known users were being mistreated at the time they dropped the sponsor, and that they didn't discover it but were informed.
No, they are not one of largest tech media companies They have less than what 100 employees. Maybe you used the wrong term?
When did they learn about it? Where your proof?
Everybody: Fuck Peter Thiel, fuck Elon Musk, fuck Honey, Fuck PayPal
Everybody: unflinchingly using PayPal
I dunno, I stopped a while back, it wasn't hard really. I've also heard that while they are usually fine with regular sums of money they are not to be trusted with large sums. Just word of mouth an I've got no proof but it put me off.
There are some examples of buyers exploiting the returns policy for expensive items. The buyer initiates a return of item but never sends it, gets item and refund.
Deleted my ebay account but very rarely will buy on the site. I've yet to find a UK alternative.
I have been using PayPal increasingly for online payments. Not sure why. I have heard old stories about PayPal but Honey seems really bad. Its basically a given that any fintech company are going to be dodgy scammers but PayPal seemed almost grown up and respectable. Guess not.
I use Klarna for basically everything I buy. I should probably reevaluate that. But I've had no issues so far. It notifies me when my payments are due. Helps me collect the sum of what I owe each month, each week. Helps me group payments to pay similar/connected things simultaneously, categorize purchases, etc, etc.
I really hope there's nothing dodgy going on there. But at least I'm not giving them interest on anything I buy. Always make sure I'm paying my stuff on time, and no postponed payments.
I'm guessing their business model is to exploit people who have issues paying on time and to collect interest and late fees, as well as receive convenience fees from stores implementing Klarna as a payment option.
I really hope there's nothing dodgy going on there
In 2023 they got a 1.1 million SEK fine for breaking the law that regulates working hours. To "allow" (strongly encourage) your employees to work nightshifts you need a collective agreement approved by the union, which they didn't have.
More recently, they got a 500 million SEK fine for skirting the anti-money laundering regulations in Sweden.
But at least I'm not giving them interest on anything I buy. Always make sure I'm paying my stuff on time, and no postponed payments.
The whole "buy now, pay later" deal is a credit loan. They are most likely paying the merchant directly and using your loan as collateral to speculate on the market, until you pay them back for that loan. If that's true, they are making profit on the interest gained from your loan.
I'm guessing their business model is to exploit people who have issues paying on time and to collect interest and late fees, as well as receive convenience fees from stores implementing Klarna as a payment option.
Correct. Like all credit banks they promote the "buy now, pay later" option before direct payment, which is becoming a pandemic on our society. Hardly any user interaction needed. They also offer their own payment plans which encourages buying even more expensive items you cannot afford.
Maybe use privacy.com instead (they also have an app), they can generate virtual credit cards and you can set limit is (one time payment, or monthly $10 only, etc). It’s great if you need to cancel something or if they try to charge you extra. Saved me $150 when boost tried to charge me 1 year after I bought a phone from them!
It’s also great for predatory services like GYM membership that you can’t cancel.
Oh you naive child
Honestly I thought all of this was common knowledge at this point, back when I used Honey (many years ago) I saw its affiliate code in the address bar and thought "huh, that's how they make money"
I remember researching it a while ago when I was curious how they made money. If anything else, this just illustrated glee little research and care people have with their online information.
Wait, when did Paypal buy Honey? 😳
2020 for $4 billion.
And Honey has always worked like this. So PayPal knew exactly what they were buying which explains the price tag. Paypal knew they were going to make their money back and then some.
Literally just watched that. I agree with his consideration that that's fraud.
This isn't anything new. Brave browser does this, ad hijacking is a common thing. Many companies have been doing this for years, why is it only coming up now?
The best time to burn down a poisonous tree was 20 years ago etc etc
That doesn't include users being a victim? Honey gives users worse coupons when better ones are available, apparently that happens if companies do a deal with Honey.
LTT… toilet flushing! I had no expectations of paypal. To my shame I used them in the past,but deleted my account after reading how scummy they are. fuck paypal and anything affiliated with them.
Mid this year they also started sharing transaction data without consent...
Delete that account
Oh, I deleted it like 1 year ago. it was probably slightly more reputable back then. it does make it easier in some cases to have a centralised way of handling payments, but I’d rather struggle with inserting my cards each time.
I am so disconnected from this influencer thing that I first heard about Honey when news were pushing that it was a scam. I'm just living under a rock and sometimes that saves my butt, I guess.
They sponsored a podcast that I listen to, and that's how I heard about it. I don't buy stuff online often enough for it to be useful, though, and I'm wary about installing stuff like that anyway.
I guess that podcast has egg on their faces now.
Can we make a version of this add-on that replaces the links with a choice of charity links?
Might as well do some good in the chaos of the internet.
I guess most people don’t have much knowledge about affiliate link URLs and how easily they can be rewritten to shift where the commission goes. I implemented SkimLinks on a hunch of websites so I’ve seen it before. Forum owners used to get upset about anyone posting product links in their comments because they night include an affiliate code. SkimLinks adds JavaScript to every page that rewrites those codes to the forum owner’s personal account. It will even insert an affiliate code into basic Amazon links that don’t have one. Once this came out, forums went a lot easier on Amazon links.
After seeing all this, the second I spot a browser extension that wants to get between me and Amazon, I immediately assume they will rewrite all the links for their own benefit. Otherwise what’s in it for them? This news isn’t much of a surprise.
The biggest issue that this video brings up is that businesses can filter out certain coupon codes if the discount is too high
I deleted my PayPal account a couple of months ago already. Problem solved.
The product is spyware by design. It's a honey pot for people trying to save a few bucks, while exposing their entire browsing behavior. They even called it honey...
I don't really wanna watch a video... but how do you "steal" affiliate links or coupon codes?
If you are doing affiliate marketing for a company and they give you a coupon code for 10% off called GET10OFF and that code gets used, the affiliate marketer gets the sale no matter where they got that code from?
He says that when you click on an affiliate link, a cookie gets stored on your browser that lasts for 30 days, saying that the source should get the commission for your purchase. Honey has a popup in checkout, even when there are no codes, with a big "Got It" button to close the popup. Clicking the Got It button replaces the old cookie with a Honey cookie, giving the commission from your purchase to them instead of your source.
and thats only one of the problems he mentions in the video
I've slept since I watched and am not great with tech, but iirc the link with the affiliate code when clicked takes you to the site. Then honey has a pop up that, when clicked, replaces the link with their own, swiping the commission. Hope that makes sense - most people likely would not catch it. The Linus tech tips was used as an example of even a tech channel with lots of employees taking quite a while to notice themselves, and even when they did, it wasn't quite conclusive for some reason?
Another thing the video touched on is that honey would claim to search for coupons but often opt to show what the partnered companies want. So, could be there's a coupon for 50% but they only show 10%.
Ah gotcha. So what I said about coupon codes would be valid, but affiliate links are different than the coupon codes. Also crazy they hide bigger discounts.
Edit: But I guess they could find a company offering a coupon code, then sign up themselves knowing it's an option now, and then show that code instead.
I assume it looks for affiliate links and replaces the original with it's own affiliate ID.