New "Calexit" bid for California secession approved for signature gathering in effort to put measure on ballot

I don't denigrate Texas every time they say they're gonna secede. In fact, I want them to. If they don't want to be a part of America, then let them go do their own thing. If that turns out to be a bad move for them, then that's on them.

And a fascist militia like Caesars legion willing to fuck around!

Balkanization is beginning

Well it's a start I guess.

I live in the EU, there are some good things but also ineffeciencies living in a confederation style government. To be fair, while consumer and labour protection in the EU has been amazing, we have to admit that there is almost no innovation in R&D going on in Europe as a whole compared to the US. Aside from strict regulations, this is because there is no single rule on how to promote R&D. Each countries have their own rules and promotions. Some states are innovators like Germany, or has no R&D at all like Ireland.

Another weakness that the EU has is on production and defense. As you rightly pointed out, Russia wants the West to fragment, and Russia wants the EU to remain chaotic when it comes to military production and have a disunited, if not an incoherent, European army. But external influence is not even the main issue, the main issue is that many EU countries are neutral like Ireland and Austria, who are not part of NATO. I don't know about Austria but it's very unpopular here in Ireland to join any military alliance and there is a negative image of NATO after the Iraq War. Finland and Sweden used to be anti-NATO until the Russian invasion of Ukraine. And with the legacy of the horrors of the Second World War, military production in Europe has been weak. Even though the EU has outstripped the US in terms of giving aid to Ukraine, much of these are non-military because European arms industries are struggling to produce. The US is still the primary military donor of Ukraine.

With different competing values and priorities, it's challenging for the EU to remain confederate. A lot of people advocate for the EU to federalise for this reason.

If political ideologies were geography bound that would make great sense. Break it up, let the pieces govern themselves. But the problem is not everyone living in a red state is a Republican or maga fetishist and not everyone living in a blue state is a democrat or liberal.

Cities are usually liberal, rural is usually conservative. I'd personally advocate for an expanded, air tight bill of rights with a federal government capable and willing to enforce it and all remaining decisions and rules be set by the local community, either city or county. Abolish state governments and reform them into regional managers that upkeep shared resources like roads, but with no legislative power.

That's what the Articles of Confederation were, and they were a disaster that only managed to keep the union alive for 8 years because people could hold their nose until the Constitution was ratified.

confederation

... odd choice for a term ... Nobody in the EU would define themselves by it ...

Well, trying to use terms to justify the US confederacy post-Civil War aside, it would actually be better for a lot of states. The rest of the world can no longer trust and increasingly bipolar schizophrenic US, whereas that's not the case for a certain number of states. You can't overcome the deeply flawed and corrupt two party federal system, and it's rapidly becoming even worse. If you can't fix the problems from within, you will only be able to fix them from outside.

CASCADIA NOW!!!

Can we get hawaii too for our corrupt politician's vacation homes

West Coat Re-Union

I know that a Canadian lawmaker offered to take Washington, Oregon and California as new provinces in response to Trump: https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/canadian-lawmaker-offers-take-washington-oregon-california-new-provinces/LPFT7I4AYBGCLHBKVOB2TIFQOQ/

If California could actually pull it off, sure. They're the largest economy in the United States, and a larger economy than many whole nations. Would any sane country turn that down?

As long as it doesn't end up like Shady Sands.

I would prefer using an indigenous name for the region. But since california had so many tribes, perhaps that is impossible.

Makes sense considering every day we get closer to nuclear warfare (and Trump plans on invading Canada)

The negotiating:

If you don't give us water we wont send you the good you need to live

You'll die well before us in that waiting game, baby

They got desalination plants.

Exit = vacate... Vacation...

Californication?

Caleaveornia

Californiout

Californexit

Adding -exit every time a region leaves some kind of alliance is going to be like adding -gate to every American political scandal

And Brexit as wordplay was just a rehash of the prior Grexit moment Greece had...

Brexit was clever wordplay, every proposal since hasn’t been.

Same for Make Britain Great Again

We honestly never really finished the last one. Reconstruction got the rug pulled out from underneath it.

No could about it. It absolutely would.

It's not come to anything. They tried this a few years ago and it failed. "approved for signature gathering" doesn't mean shit

Here's to hoping it's just saber-rattling to remind the feds how important it is to the nation. CA standards benefit way more than just CA residents; i.e. giving other states framework to adopt similar legislation (like emission standards) or even HR practices. Anecdotally, I worked for a CA based company at an east coast office; when they laid a portion of the workforce off, they paid severance to all affected even though many of us were in 'right to work' states.

just like that one movie, what's it called

That's an approach I'd never considered - is there wiggle-room in the state constitutions to split into smaller states?

Patrolling the Mojave almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter...

Why would we though? There has and would be no break betwesn the original Bear Flag Revolt and the modern California Republic. We could definitely create CR Rangers tbough.

NUSA

The right wing has wanted this for years because California is very conservative outside of its cities. Splitting the state up would guarantee a Republican Senate.

The State of Jefferson would have started this process, but WWII got in the way. Except that was all predicated on being super racist.

I think if you get a legit Cal3 proposal, you might end up with a Cal4 where they pull from the six-state version where "Silicon Valley" is its own state shows up so that there can be some technopolis with custom laws and insane cost of living. Essentially, turning SFO into another Manhattan.

I would never move back to CA as it is, but if there was a breakup, I might actually go for it.

Careful. Texas has some long forgotten provision where they could easily do the same thing, into 5 states. and they'd all be red.

They’d become a pretty large country with one of the world’s largest economies holding major port access to their neighbor. A few allies and things aren’t quite so clear cut. Not to mention they’d potentially have significant military resources.

If they do start to secede or actually secede than it just becomes an expensive and complicated mess that doesn't help anyone. Because even if they are forced back then the larger federation has to work ten times harder to keep them in place and cooperative and in the end becomes a net negative where they have to decide if it's cheaper to let go or keep paying to stay together.

Ask a Canadian what it means because we've had that discussion many times with Quebec and less often with other regions. It's far cheaper for everyone to be cooperative and mutually benefiting one another on good terms than to threaten anyone into a corner ..... and even when things are working, it's still not easy.

Oregon and Washington would probably do the same if California seceded. (Which it won't). If BC Canada left, Cascadia would be a thing that is large and prosperous enough to stand on it's own. That or the three states just join Canada.

In what world did refusing to vote democrat in the last election result in a good outcome?

It will be the death of many reasonable people in red states though.

Well in fairness, the pendulum keeps swinging farther with each new administration. So the split is never going to happen until it does. No way to know if this is the time or not. But unless something happens to break the cycle of more and more extremism, their will be a serious attempt at a split eventually. Weather it results in some kind of civil war where one side forces the other to stay, or a split actually happens is also unknowable.

Well, there are two big differences.

The ethical one, the South wanted to secede to keep their slaves, and to clarify because the term slavery has been run ragged by propaganda, they wanted to keep their forced labour/death camps where they could kill, maim, rape, buy and sell people, also children, and have them do backbreaking, crippling work to enrich themselves.

On the other hand, California is contemplating this because the South, after losing their war, did a 200 year psyop to get a rapist and a bona-fide sieg heiling Nazi in power to force California to drop initiatives that would keep the Earth inhabitable and let their citizens live in peace.

The pragmatic one is that while the South was what it was, California is still an economic powerhouse accounting for 20% of the US economy. If they would secede, and bring a few like-minded states with them, it's not the least bit implausible that the South would be doing the burning again.

All that said, the Russians and the Chinese are salivating at this idea I'm sure.

But they didn't just go to war to stop it, they burned the south to the ground.

Do that to CA and you're shooting yourself in the foot as the US

Destroying your most important ports and where more than 50% of your agriculture nationwide comes from is not a good idea

And they were right to. Sherman and John Brown are national heros and we could use them again.

Soooo many removed comments!

To anyone who saw them: without quitting them directly, what were their general sentiments?

It will take a massive chunk out of federal funding to reduce states most of whom don't pull equal weight

Likely.
Russia's goal isn't to support Republicans.
Russia's goal is to support anything and everything that splits the USA and NATO apart.

Fuck their red majority. Then those other states can secede too. Why should we continue to suffer for them?

Lets suffer forever for ppl who hate us yay

“Guys, we can’t leave this facist dictatorship, because it’ll be even more facist without us.”

Promise for communism then

If this movement has any ground game, they may send a volunteer to your home at a time of your choosing to collect your signatures. Let’s say you had a small gathering of like minded friends? They would be there before the Domino’s guy.

Serious petition movements have a volunteer system set up where they mobilize passionate people with flexible schedules (i.e. usually adorable old ladies or the funemployed). They have to have a website with contact info.

I think it would be a very interesting national debate if this got traction, perhaps even a productive one.

Everything you just said sounds fantastic

Not to mention that it would be utterly non-functional for all states which share water from the Colorado River to not be part of the same organizational unit. Any smaller secession than that would lead to instant water wars.

A bunch of them have already been moving to Texas.

The article basically says they will form a committee to investigate how to mitigate this type of problem.

Even if it's a terrible idea economically (which it probably is), it may still have support from an ideological perspective, and that depends just how messed up federal politics becomes in the next 3 years.

Brexit was really only purportedly economically motivated - it was really an ideological idea.