1w ago

Led by RFK Jr., Conservatives Embrace Raw Milk. Regulators Say It’s Dangerous.

kffhealthnews.org Led by RFK Jr., Conservatives Embrace Raw Milk. Regulators Say It’s Dangerous. - KFF Health News

Controversy over raw milk reflects the push-pull the Trump administration faces in rolling back regulations and offering consumers more choices. For now, the CDC still recommends against consuming raw milk and the FDA bans its interstate sale.

Public Health @mander.xyz

Cat @ponder.cat

1w ago

Led by RFK Jr., Conservatives Embrace Raw Milk. Regulators Say It’s Dangerous.

kffhealthnews.org /news/article/raw-milk-rfk-conservatives-regulators-mark-mcafee/

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287 comments

Let them get their raw milk then?
- Kids shouldn't die because their parents are idiots.
  
  The rare salient point.
  
  it's eugenics, but legal, why shouldn't we? Clearly letting them live up till now hasn't served them well.
  
  Yes they should. Children of profound idiots don't DESERVE to die, but no one should be surprised when they eat lye or invest in 401k. Misunderstand eveything.
  
  I mean if they grow up to be MAGA…….
  /s
  
  They might be kind of doomed anyway.
- Pathogens don't care whether or not you spread them to other people who don't drink raw milk, I'm afraid.
  
  And people who care, actually do things like get vaccines, and believe doctors.
- I think that's their point. Just let them be adults and decide. I think overall it's a very calculate issue used as a proxy for something else. What I don't understand is why the Democrats or people on the left haven't seen this stuff for what it is. Also there's no counter to this strategy. It's like a weird game theory situation where one group is knows game theory and the other side knows how to play checkers
  
  I think overall it’s a very calculate issue used as a proxy for something else.
  That much is true. Its a proxy for industry de-regulation.
  I'm all for people getting the raw milk they demand, because I hope it will lead to a quick demise.
  
  Adult implies mental competency.
  
  The non raw milk people should market their milk on the carton with
  Death and Disease Free
- The flu in general is great at swapping proteins with other strains many of which are extant in the population right now. Every human bird flu infection of which there are presently few is a chance for highly pathogenic bird flu to make a version that is more transmissible which might yet retain its present greater than covid lethality. If this happens millions could die among them the most vulnerable including the old and those with auto immune disorders. Most of these folks who would die don't themselves drink raw milk for obvious reasons.
  
  Well, thankfully, civilized nations around the globe will be able to contain the damage to mostly just the fascist Imperial States of America.

Regulators Say It’s Dangerous.
Not for long, they won't, because they won't be allowed to.
- Because they won't exist.

its because it is dangerous.
There's literally no point in selling non pasteurized milk, unless you want to waste money and cause potential health issues.
Literally all pasteurization does is heat up the milk, moderately, for a short period of time, and thats it.
It's more cost effective to do at scale, it's easier to regulate, ensuring consumer safety is easier, and ensuring that something happens if your dumbass doesn't do it properly, can also happen. The only reason you shouldn't do this is if you want to pasteurize your own milk, for some reason.
Maybe if you hate having free time, and need more responsibilities you should go synthesize your own fucking motor oil. Not pasteurize milk.
- If you want to make Kefir at home you need raw milk. Obviously US goes into Soviet times so they will need it. This and potatoes in every home garden.
  
  No you do not.
  Buy and maintain some kefir grains, it's not expensive or difficult and does not require raw milk.
  https://culturesforhealth.com/collections/kefir/products/milk-kefir-grains
  
  I make yogurt all the time with pasteurized milk. Why would “thin yogurt” require raw milk? I have read that you get a thicker yogurt using regular pasteurized milk instead of ultra pasteurized milk, but I have had zero problems making yogurt with either.
  
  Kefir is delicious though

Let them drink raw milk
- Cows are getting avian influenza. Farm workers are getting it from the chickens and cows. There is concern that people may eventually catch bird flu from raw milk. The more people get infected, the greater the odds that a mutation will develop that allows human to human transmission. Unfortunately, we may, yet again, have all of our lives and livelihoods threatened by people too ignorant to take even the most basic precautions for self preservation.

Beautiful ... the Darwin Awards are now coming to your grocery store

Let them drink it.

I drank milk from the tank and cream is the best. However, I still prefer pasteurized milk. If the MAGAts want to drink raw milk, let them and watch the green apple splatter flow.

Big year for Tuberculosis

You know what, just let it happen. I'll just do my best to stay away from any milk for four years. We'll see how things turn out afterwards.
- Switch to almond
  
  I like soy better

But I can still get the pasteurized stuff, right?
- Not for long.
  
  Guess it's almond milk for me then.

- Bobby Singer spitting wisdom.
- RIP Bobby.

Go Darwin! Go!

You can just buy darwin awards right off the shelf, now.

Humans shouldnt be drinking cow milk anymore anyways.

I saw raw milk sold at school. Didn't understand it. What's the difference? If I gave you two cups with raw and pasteurized, could you tell the difference?
- You can't tell the difference, and that's part of the problem. One has been cooked slightly to kill pathogens and the other could contain deadly pathogens.

Let em have it. Only way those types will learn

Fair question from a French guy, here, where raw milk is not the most common, but easily available in stores, and recommended in many recipes. What's your opinion about raw milk cheese? Do you also think it's super dangerous? Industrialised pasteurized cheese is absolutely sad and boring, compared to raw milk french cheese (quality, variety, taste and authenticity)
- Americans are dramatic. Most likely not much bad will happen because unpasteurized milk is now legal. Mostly its democrats wanting to call Republicans stupid, because it makes them feel better to shit on another group of people and put themselves above them.
  So you are right to be confused why people are so upset about this. Its not really about the milk.

Fun fact: nearly 40% of all foodborne illnesses were caused by raw milk consumption. Pasteurization has reduced that number down to less than 1%, except in places where raw milk consumption is still allowed.
- Been only buying organic milk for 10+ years now out of preference, it stays fresh for much longer than normal milk. This is because USDA Organic milk is ultra-pasteurized in almost the same way as shelf-stable milk.
  I searched and found this article and they reported that there's virtually no difference in nutrients between the options:
  https://www.100daysofrealfood.com/is-ultra-pasteurized-milk-bad/
  So if all the nutrients are the same, the only difference in less pasteurization is more bacteria. Fuck that!
  
  I think it definitely affects the taste though doesn't it? I prefer the organic ones that are vat pasteurized due to that reason, ultra feels sweeter to me.
- Legal in the UK, fucking read a book.
  
  Legal vs. Illegal is not the same as Safe vs. Unsafe.
  
  Under certain conditions, and it still poses a risk as the proper labeling of it suggests.
  The NLH has some literature on the unnecessary amount of people that are made sick, and some that have died as a result of consuming raw milk.
  Take a look.
  If you want to believe it’s harmless, and consume it despite warnings, you are free to do so. But I can’t in good conscience allow you to misinform people without due diligence. Now everyone can weigh the risks after having been given both sides of the argument.

Let them. Darwin wins.
- Unfortunately it's not that simple. Avian flu and other viruses can potentially spread from cows to humans, where it's more likely to mutate and spread. It's never the risk-accepters that suffer most. It's always the sick, the poor, the very young and the very old, and the healthcare workers who suffer. The people who refused to get vaccines or take even basic precautions with COVID killed a lot of people, while the vast majority of those assholes survived.
  
  Avian flu and other viruses can potentially spread from cows to humans, where it’s more likely to mutate and spread.
  Every single person that contracts the HPAI H5N1 virus is a few billion chances for the virus to mutate and generate a strain that is able to spread from person to person. These people are throwing dice over and over and when they come up snake eyes, we are all going to lose.
  
  A coworker of mine (African American) lost three cousins to COVID. Minorities are less likely to have good healthcare or the resources to pay out of pocket when necessary. I'm mostly on team Darwin too but I agree it's not just the idiots that will get hurt. The way things are going schools might even start teaching that raw milk isn't that harmful.
- And when more parents start giving their kids raw milk, what then?
  Forcing kids to eat dangerous food is child abuse.

Can anyone explain to me why conservatives love raw milk so much? Is it like more profitable or something? Why the hell does this keep coming up?
- Science-denying anti-intellectualism mixed with "you can't tell me what to do!"
  
  Exactly. And we should exploit that by telling them it's not safe to consume Arsenic or lick a lead bar multiple times a day, every day. They'll be like, "oh yeah! watch me lib tard!". And the population will shrink. :)
- They're like toddlers. You tell them they shouldn't and they will do everything in their power to do it anyways. They don't believe in science so everything is a "radical far left jewish space laser" conspiracy to take away their freedumbs.
- As far as I can tell: It's partially the same shit as the anti vaccine mixed with being angry about government regulations.
  A lot of the anecdotes I've heard about raw.milk being safe, are from small farms with few dairy cows.
  
  My upper middle class family in Houston drinks it all the time. Yes they're all die hard conservatives.
- In addition to what everyone else has said, I think it's also from ideas of "return to tradition" and a veneration of a kind of rural lifestyle that largely doesn't exist anymore. My extended family are farmers and even they got out of livestock when I was really young because there's not enough profit except at obscene scale. But milk fresh from the cow was a thing I grew up hearing about from cousins, it was apparently viewed as safe enough for the older kids as long as you cleaned the teat and it was really really fresh. But I wouldn't be surprised if the conditions in factory farms added another layer of risk that just wasn't there in the 90s on the last remaining family farms.
  Edit: also some of them are operating under the mistaken idea that raw milk is healthier or more nutritious (it's not), or that or tastes better (actually possible, I actually heard it tasted slightly better as a kid).
  
  Return to tradition is not the whole story.
  For conservatives, power is wielded or power is seceded. In a government that you don't trust, that's forcing you to drink pasteurized milk, the idea of raw milk is kind of that "the government is hiding something from us" and not "the government is protecting us". While there is some overlap between "the government can't be trusted with milk" with "the government can be trusted with immigrants", for the most part they aren't necessarily the same people but they are cut from the same cloth.
  They don't want the government to control them. The government controls other people.
  It's why people like RFK are so dangerous because he now has the power to remove many of the safety nets we have grown accustomed to. Instead of Trump's first term where COVID was downplayed, we won't even test for avian flu. We won't even research cures.
  Not only that, given the sheer kowtowing media outlets are doing we likely will have challenges reading outbreaks in other countries.
  This is not an exaggeration. We are in fascism today.
  
  When consuming raw milk directly from your own cow its a lot safer than anything related to shipping, holding and selling it. Raw milk always contains bacteria and other microbes. These take time to grow so drinking it immediately doesn't give them time to grow. But any amount of time between that allows them to go crazy. So it can be safe to drink raw milk in the old method where it came directly from your own cow with no time between. Its anything with scale that causes all the issues.
  
  as long as you cleaned the teat and it was really really fresh. But I wouldn’t be surprised if the conditions in factory farms added another layer of risk that just wasn’t there in the 90s on the last remaining family farms.
  I think you're hit the nail on the head. There's a concept in engineering (Hyrum's Law) that where systems interface with each other (e.g. software), the design of one will ultimately rely on every aspect of the other, intentional or otherwise. In the case of industrially produced milk, pasteurization permits a relatively high degree of filth on the supply side when compared to practices in the EU or UK (they ship more raw product). So, it stands to reason that this isn't just likely but exactly what's going on since everyone can get away with it.
- It's the hip new way to feel rebellious and tell the government "you can't tell me what to do" while the government fucks them over and steals their future for a quick pay day.
  It's a carefully orchestrated distraction.
- It's anti vax and anti regulation so basically a maga wet dream. Squeeze cow, milk, ta da. In reality to the other 3/4 of humanity it's a microbial breeding ground for unfiltered mutations and diseases because you're just trusting the entire food chain leading up to the cow has been healthy and unmutated.
  Pasteurized milk goes through a process where you filter out unwanted microbes or unsafe mutations before bottling the milk. It's like boiling water before drinking vs drinking from a puddle.
  
  Pasteurized milk goes through a process where you filter out unwanted microbes or unsafe mutations before bottling the milk
  Not filtering. You heat the milk. And it'll do nothing to "mutations." It suppresses bacteria and at least some viruses. If you double-pasteurize, it'll also suppress bacterial spores.
- My mother's been on the "natural health" train for a while now and claims that pasteurizing milk removes most of the nutrients (verifiably false). No amount of my protesting or pointing her towards sources for the contrary have convinced her to stop consuming that garbage.
- The only half reasonable argument I've seen is that requiring pasteurisation (supposedly) makes it difficult for small dairy farms that want to sell direct to consumer, and forces them to sell to large milk companies for a far lower price. I have no idea how valid that argument is.
  
  I don't think so. I remember that we bought milk directly from the farm as a kid (Germany, so experiences may vary), but it always got collected in a big container that automatically pasteurized it during storage. Every farm had those, so they couldn't have been that expensive.
- If no one else has mentioned it, there are also those idiotic fascists (but I repeat myself) that were/are big on guzzling milk to show how "superior" they are because lactose intolerance is fairly common, but even more common among non-whites.
  Extra Nazi points if it's raw milk, maybe?
  
  Damn Empire milk-drinkers. A True Nord is raised on mead straight from their momma's teat.
- Brawndo hasn’t been invented yet.
- The conscription of the granola moms.
  I think it's just that it's a regulation, and regulation bad. I don't want the gunment telling me I can't drink raw milk. No, fools, the government doesn't want people selling raw milk.
  A lot of the US understands capitalism as purchasing choices at the store. Therefore if I can buy more stuff at the store I'm more free. Regulation bad.
  This is handy for actual capitalist that want to abuse their workers and their customers by selling poison or watered down milk with plaster of Paris for color and liquified calf brains for texture miles from cows that are fed sawdust and literally dying. 👈 Why we regular milk now because this is all literally what was occuring.
- Regression. World is scary. Milk brought safety during infancy and the limbic system remembers.
  
  Crying and shitting themselves not good enough?
- I think it's one of the easiest ways they can "stick it to the man".

If they die they die. It's a risk I'm willing to take
- Except they're also giving it to their kids, who are far more susceptible to the diseases
  
  I said what I said
  
  Ok, so they get to watch their kids die at their own hands, and then head off to jail. Problem seems to be fixing itself.
  
  I don't give a fuck about their kids.

At least this time the disease will stay confined to the stupid.
- That's not how diseases work.
- Isn't it contagious
  
  You can at least get vaxed for tb.
  
  Tuberculosis is also carried in unpastuerised milk. The US currently has the largest outbreak in its history.
  
  Bird flu? Human-to-human either isn't happening, or is extremely rare, can't remember.
  For now. If it mutates to become more contagious without becoming less deadly, that becomes an everyone problem
  
  Stupidity? Based on the election result, I would say yes.

Why do these fucking morons always want the objectively worst thing? The absolute dumbest thing you can think of and they're all for it. Why is the world like this now? I can't fucking stand it. "Let's get rid of the FDA and OSHA!" Like, what the fuck is this horse shit. This shouldn't be allowed to happen! I'm legitimately losing my sanity more and more each day.
- it's because the government wants to fuck of us over duuude !! everything they say we should do opposite!! the government is a giant monolith and every human that works for them magically agrees to the same ideologies which force us to drink raw milk!! because they agreed pasteurized milk is good therefore it is bad !!
  that's really all they think
- Because they know what milk is supposed to taste like. You clearly don't.
  
  You can go ahead and say "we." You're clearly one of them.
  
  What's wrong with the taste of pasteurized milk? Does the salmonella in the raw milk give it extra spiciness or something?

stop. don’t. come back…
- help.... police.... murder
  
  because charlie, they are all a bunch of nitwits

They are going to harm their own children, too, which is the real tragedy here.

Sorry but how the fuck are insurance companies OK with this? They hold extreme amounts of power over the US. They are going to have to do ridiculous amounts of payouts for hospital bills.
How the fuck are people's life saving surgeries getting denied at pre-approval, but they are not denying people's coverage for fucking drinking raw milk??
- The insurance companies just have to make this simple calculation work: Price for insurance > average costs to pay the bills covered
  They could just not cover raw milk related stuff, or, actually, they don't even really have to care, they can just increase prices– what are you gonna do about it?
- You haven't heard? AI is going to automatically deny all those claims, problem solved.
- Maybe if this takes off raw milk will show up on health questionnaires or be in the fine print as a pre existing condition
- They don’t pay out the bills lol. I imagine they’ll work on dismantling the ACA/“Obamacare.” Insurance will cover nothing.
- they can just outright deny them im guessing, the consumer bought it, knowingly.
  
  And theyll somehow blame Dems
- Same as every other money minded entity, if they speak out they'll be shouted down or destroyed. Ethics don't matter, number go up.
- Fascists always turn on each other.

Conservatives Embrace Raw Milk
Not seeing the problem, here.
Regulators Say It’s Dangerous
…And? We need a little chlorine in our gene pool. If the dumbest and most ignorant segment of America wants to kill themselves, it’s an adult making an adult’s decision. It can only improve society if they do.
My only objection kicks in when kids end up in the cross hairs of that stupidity and ignorance.
- Controversial, but the kids have to die for the idiot adults to learn their lesson.
  It's a tragedy because they have little to no agency. But these morons, like those who refuse vaccines, need to watch their kids suffer and die to feel the consequences for themselves to understand why safety regulations are written in blood.
  
  Quite charitable of you to assume they would ever come to understand anything. From what I've seen, my money's on them finding some way to blame the godless libs and not learning a darn thing.
- I guess there's 1 upside to the potential loss of school lunches?

Cheese made from unpasteurized milk can be safe, its what happens in most of the world. As long as its done correctly, tested and labeled as such that is fine. The whole point of the cheesemaking process is to encourage the good microbes to outcompete with the bad ones to make the cheese since its a preservative method. Its the drinking of raw milk that is dangerous. So of course that is the part that everyone wants to do and fight about
- Cheese made from unpasteurized milk can be safe
  From what I know of the US food industry, I still wouldn't chance it over there.
  
  Unpasteurized cheese will typically be higher end because it's more difficult and slower to make. ( Unpasteurized cheese typically use the natural yeasts and bacterias to ferment so are slower). So as long as it labeled it should be fine

I mean… science says it’s dangerous. Reality says it’s dangerous. And soon, for many, entropy will remember that it was dangerous.
- Science doesn't say that. Control freak whiners say it.
  
  https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/foodborne-disease/salmonella-outbreak-tied-raw-milk-products-often-implicated-firm-may-have
  Salmonella outbreak tied to raw milk products from often-implicated firm may have sickened 165
  https://www.fda.gov/food/buy-store-serve-safe-food/dangers-raw-milk-unpasteurized-milk-can-pose-serious-health-risk
  "According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), from 1998 through 2018, there were 202 outbreaks linked to drinking raw milk These outbreaks caused 2,645 illnesses and 228 hospitalizations. CDC points out that most foodborne illnesses are not a part of recognized outbreaks, and for every illness reported, many others occur."
  https://abcnews.go.com/Health/updates-bird-flu-outbreak-now-linked-raw-milk/story?id=116479974
  "Updates on the bird flu outbreak, now linked to raw milk products in California
  The first case of bird flu in a person was confirmed in April by the CDC."
  https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/two-cats-in-california-died-after-drinking-raw-milk-recalled-for-bird-flu-their-owner-says
  "Nearly a dozen cats in California have died since early December after consuming raw milk or raw pet food contaminated with bird flu, health officials have said.
  The infections have followed a massive outbreak of the bird flu virus in dairy cows, which has affected in more than 900 U.S. dairy herds in 16 states. About 80 percent of those herds are in California.
  Federal and state health officials have warned people not to drink raw milk because of the potential for infection with bird flu and a host of other germs. Officials also have cautioned pet owners to avoid feeding unpasteurized milk and raw meat diets to their animals."
  
  Brother, why do you think pasteurization was invented?
  I personally don't see an issue with people wanting to eat risky foods, but don't try and tell us that we shouldn't warn you that they are risky and could harm you. What happens after is your responsibility, but at least allow people to make an informed decision first rather than cover up the obvious health risks.
  
  Lol have fun with your bird flu
  
  science literally does.
  Science says that if you fall over and hit your head on the ground you might fucking die also.
  
  Wait, are you’re seriously trying to say that raw milk isn’t dangerous??
  If I may, I’d like to ask you to read a few resources that will help illustrate how consuming raw milk has the potential to be incredibly dangerous with the hope that you will take this seriously.
  The Center for Disease Control is a good place to start where they illustrate what pasteurizing means and why we do it:
  Raw Milk Pasteurization
  Next, I’d suggest you look into the complications that can arise as a result of consuming raw milk:
  Dangers associated with raw milk consumption
  And finally, I’d recommend you read up on the misconceptions and flat-out lies you’ve been led to believe about the “safety” of consuming unpasteurized milk:
  Raw Milk Misconceptions
  Hope this helps you out!
  
  🤡🤡

This will almost certainly cause a rise in neonatal Listeria cases from maternal transmission...which even if the child survives, can leave them with lifelong disability and functional dependency. Through no fault of their own...just their parents.
- lifelong disability and functional dependency.
  Poor family from medical bills, more easily manipulated into voting GOP. 3 votes secured!

Welp time to switch to 100% oat milk
- Oat milk is great imo. Planet Oat extra creamy is the best available where I'm at.
  
  Depending on your patience, you can make your own for super cheap. It's roughly 100g oats to 1000g water, with 20-50g neutral oil, and a tiny bit of guar and xanthan gums. Blend the oats and water for a minute, strain, then add the gums and oil and blend again. Sweeten to taste. Maybe ten minutes max.
  If you can get it easily, adding amylase enzymes (blend of alpha, beta and gamma works best) after blending, warming to around 140, let sit for 30 minutes and then raise to 180 for 5 will increase the sweetness and keep it from getting gloopy. You can get them pretty cheap from a brewing supply store. It's how they make commercial oat milk, and it's how they can say "no added sugar" and still have it be sweet.

Pro tip for the MAGAs: raw milk tastes much better when the cows have brucellosis and TB.

Soon to be former regulators I'm guessing.

I for one want to allow all conservatives to consume as much raw milk as they want.
- They will catch viruses that will kill the rest of us. Protecting the population against communicable diseases requires altruism and cooperation, of which conservatives seem incapable.
  
  Plus, even if all illnesses could somehow be limited to just the people who actively drink it, they give it to their kids who have no say in the matter.
- I understand where you're coming from, but then they just become a vector for nasties (e.g. avian flu when it finally overcomes the human-to-human transmission barrier, and you can be sure they won't take adequate precautions to avoid spreading it) as well as risking the health of their children.
  
  You're right, obviously, but I can't help wishing "just desserts"
  
  Damn Nurglites

Unfortunately this wil presumably only be American conservatives.
Will they die?
- The second best outcome is suicide by stupidity.
  The best is they stop being stupid.
  
  Ehhhhh...

Let them. It'll make the election in 4 years a lot easier.
- You've already had your last election.

As much as I delight in watching stupid people suffer stupid consequences, the problem here is the same with their anti-mask bullshit - diseases spread. Bird Flu, or something else, could end up being the next COVID pandemic because these fuckwits are gullible as shit. Then they spread those diseases to the most vulnerable people around them, including children. These kinds of people are why I sometimes regret being an artist. If anyone belongs in hell, it's people who hurt kids.
- Not trying to be rude, it just genuinely went over my head, what does being an artist have to do with it?

The good news is that drinking raw milk will disproportionately kill conservatives. Every dead conservative is a net win for society.

Ehh let em reap the rewards. Like not wearing masks during covid 🤷‍♂️
- Good analogy, actually, since masks both reduce the risk to the wearer and reduce the risk of the wearer spreading whatever they're carrying to those around them.
  Unfortunately raw milk can be a vector for avian flu and if (when) it achieves human-to-human transmission, these people will be vectors.
  
  They are vectors for a lot more diseases than that...

Oh nooo.... Don't drink dangerous things against advice

Milk is dangerous.

Back in my country, I drank raw milk my whole life and I'd never had an issue. It was sheep milk, not cow, so it could be different. Literal raw milk straight from the udder to the bowl to my stomach. I'm ok with raw milk as long as it's coming from what I raise. Not gonna touch it from a bottle at Walmart god knows where it came from and ~~now~~ how much shit it went through. Plus, all these farms owned by huge corporations feed their cattle shit. So, no thanks.
Edit: to clarify a little more for some folks who might have misunderstood my point. Raw milk in and of itself isn't and shouldn't be harmful at all. It's the condition you put the animal in, the food you feed it and the way the milk is being served that kills people. Our animals were never in cages, they roamed in "god's earth" as some say. They grazed whatever grass came out of the ground and they drank river water. We'd never fed them anything they weren't supposed to eat. We weren't in a hurry for a "profit" to sum it up, we were just living normal. So we didn't have to do shit that would cause chaos. Hope this makes sense. Also, this comment wasn't meant as political at all, just something I got reminded of when reading the post
- there's also a big difference between drinking minutes old raw milk directly straight out of the teet, vs commercial operations where the milk is a few hours to days old and is bottled with equipment that isn't perfectly cleaned between each bottle and then consumers sticking it in a fridge for a week. The former is just something farmers are going to do if they want and isn't really a serious public health concern imo (although still not without risk) and can't really be regulated away anyway. the latter exposes way more people and is way more dangerous, and that IS able to be regulated out of existence.
  
  Yup, I'm in 100% agreement on that. I couldn't have said it better. Thank you.
- Raw milk is also an active transmission vector for bird flu, which has a mortality rate, by some measures, of about 51%. COVID was about 1 or 2%.
  
  Not gonna deny that. It's a whole different ball game here in the west. Everything is different, and I found it kinda fascinating when I moved here. We were just simple farmers who are very far away from the "city" and that was all we had back then :)
- It takes time for the microbes in raw milk to grow to become dangerous. So drinking it on your own farm with your own cow isn't an issue since there is no time for them to grow. Any processing adds time which gives bacteria more time to grow. For a reference, in ideal conditions E. coli can double its population every 20 minutes.
- Although this is anecdotal evidence I think you have a few good points. I'd be willing to let the practice be more common as long as the product stayed local (within the county) and the cows were kept in specific conditions (not shoulder to shoulder 24/7). The data regarding this is very small so I wouldn't want stuff to start being transported hundreds of miles until there's some kind of established safety record.
  
  Agreed 100%. And it is 100% anecdotal. Certainly my personal story. Grew up a framer and herded over 400 sheep back home. Had 2 horses and over 10 dogs. We had a huge land (my family still does back there now). That was our main breakfast. Raw milk and home made bread my mother made. Not sure why some folks are upset about it and started downvoting. lol. Other nations and other cultures do exist, and it's not all just the USA.

They are voracious readers and consume a large amount of testing data, let the option be there, they are capitalist so the market will cull the product if its not wanted/needed.
- voracious readers
  Uh. yeah of facebook misinformation
  
  Hey now, you also need to know they listen to vloggers on youtube and twitter too, see they are using a wide variety of sources, and I am sure they checked their sources on the subjects.
- /s?
  
  I am just going on what they say. They have done the research

Do any of you know what clotted cream is? Made in the UK, perfectly safe, delicious, and legal there. Completely illegal here, as made from raw milk. If the brits can figure it out, why can't Canada and the US? There's a large number of European products simply can't be made with pasteurized milk, it's not like it's killing Italians. And it's not just processed forms, it's legal to buy raw milk itself in the UK (except Scotland). Milk sold in the states doesn't even taste like milk anymore, and after the USMCA signing, that stuff started showing up in Canada, straight garbage.
- Clotted Cream isn't the same thing as raw milk.
  https://www.roddas.co.uk/faqs/
  "IS CLOTTED CREAM PASTEURISED?
  Yes it is pasteurised and therefore is it safe for both children and pregnant women to eat and enjoy.
  IS CLOTTED CREAM SAFE FOR PREGNANT WOMEN TO EAT?
  Yes, it’s pasteurised, so it’s perfectly safe for those with a bun in the oven."
- So… you’re partially correct!
  But If it helps get you all the way there, Clotted Cream is safe because one of the steps in how it’s made is heating the milk slowly to a temperature that essentially kills the harmful bacteria, essentially, pasteurizing it in the process.
  So, you’re pretty much eating pasteurized milk. Hope this helps!
  
  Little more than partially correct because the temperatures aren't that high, hence it being illegal by NA standards.

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