How do people not realize supporting Biden is actually the epitome of privilege?
Imagine the mental gymnastics you have to go through to argue that not voting for a genocidal maniac is privilege. Basically what this person saying is that if you are Palestinian you should vote for and support the person who is actively enabling the genocide of your people because they are afraid of what Trump might do because they themselves might be affected by it. How is that not privilege?
The most effective way of achieving any meaningful change is protesting and holding politicians accountable no matter who is in power. But they're arguing for not doing that. To blindly accept and not protest or even criticize a person enabling genocide. Who cares what you vote for? A single vote doesn't mean shit but standing up and fighting against fascism and genocide is what matters. Not only are many of these liberals privileged they are fucking cowards too.
Dem hardliners have decided the ends (their fake democracy) justify the means (literally genocide). This is not the answer to "What would you have done during the Holocaust" that I wanted. Like what the entire fuck
They read Martin Niemƶller's poem "first they came for the socialists..." and somehow think this doesn't apply to them. Do they think that the precedent that is being set by the genocide of Palestinians can't also apply to the other marginalized groups they pretend to care about?
If they can genocide 1 group of peoples they can genocide any group of peoples, expecting that party to do anything to stop the right's attack on lgbtq+ peoples is naive to the point of stupidity. If the Republicans really do decide to significantly ramp up their oppression during the next term, the Democrats will not only let them but probably even help them do it.
The way this type of libs act, I think they would be accusing us of thinking the "first came for the" doesn't apply to us. To them, it'a vote between "first they came for the Palestinians" and "first they came for the Palestinians but even worse. Also, they're coming for the trans people first as well."
"I shouldn't have to vote for the lesser of two evils, I should get to vote for a candidate that 100% aligns with my desires"
sweet mother of shit no one has ever said, can you actually address a real point anyone has made or are you only capable of debating strawmen. I've can't even fathom agreeing on 85% of things with someone who would run under a third ML party that's going to get 450 votes, let alone 100%. I'm willing to vote for someone who agrees with like, 40% of what I actually believe. Biden, on a good day? Represents maybe 2% of what I believe and actively opposes about 95% of what I believe. Man can't even be bothered to not send bombs to Israel that he knows damn well are going to be dropped on hospitals. I live in a state with universal mail in ballots. I get my ballot mailed to my doorstep. I don't need to put on pants to vote, and I'm not going to waste my time acting like somehow things would be totally different under either Red Trump or Blue Trump
In the coming sunday we have local elections in Poland. I briefly entertained the thought of putting on my pants and going to vote, but the local elections in Poland are designed to be much more corrupt than the national ones.
I hate how these smug ghouls are almost always trying to re-frame anti-Biden sentiment over a literal genocide as if it was just us making mountains out of nothing.
"This is just a small disagreement you have with his politics, you agree with him almost 100% of the time otherwise so you should just accept it and vote for him, don't let perfection be the enemy of the good."
Not even Lenin aligns 100% of my values, and heās the leader who in all of world history I align closest with. Thatās such a strange straw man they are making.
Notice how the framing on Palestine switched from āTrump will do the bad thingā to āTrump isnāt going to be better than Biden.ā Even there they have to admit that Biden and Trump are 100% Hitler.
I think this goes back to the white, affluent liberal worldview that they speak for the poor, unfortunate souls that canāt speak for themselves. So to disregard their political interests is, in their minds, to disregard those without privilege.
In the news threads on anything Israel/Palestine, there will be (highly upvoted) comments spouting off about 'what even is Palestine' anyway, and that kind of garbage.
As though Palestinians must need to be able to trace their lineage back generations and have a history dating back millineia, and failing that it's fine to just seize their land and kill them
As though Palestinians must need to be able to trace their lineage back generations and have a history dating back millineia
And yet they can. Genetic testing shows the closest genetic relatives of the 2000-year old Hebrew population of Palestine and Galilee are Palestinians, Lebanese, and Syriacs.
Ironically, the Ashkenazi Jewish population have 60-80% European origin by mitochondrial (matrilineal) DNA.
The Jews mostly didnāt leave Palestine. They mostly converted to other religions.
The āPalestinian Arabā idea is pseudoscience in furtherance of genocide. Itās to deny the indigenous nature of the Palestinians. The arabicization of Palestine was mostly a matter of cultural exchange, much less than genetics. The Palestinians have been there for almost 5,000 years, and the Ashkenazi and Sephardic, etc, groups share some common ancestry with them.
The indigenous Hebrews (one of groups tribes who lived in the region) mostly converted to Christianity and Romanized by the 4th century then after the Arab conquest in the 7th century they largely converted to Islam. The local population was never removed or expelled. They simply changed their cultural practices over 2000 years, included by their neighbors, just like everywhere else did.
I love how this ladder-pulling liberal cop-queer thinks there's any solidarity to be found between assimilationist sellouts and those who know better. Nah, if you're gonna eagerly goosestep right next to the rest of the coastal nazis, you are no longer someone I consider worth extending solidarity to. I would sooner watch the country fall-- would sooner die in that fall-- than be counted on the same side as the genociders. Death to the settler, death to its empire.
Leave it to blahaj.zone to have the most spineless, most wretched, most fucking milquetoast assimilationist take possible. Anything to keep the treats flowing for them. Their man ain't done shit for me; in fact, he still owes me 2 grand, locked up a couple of my cousins on RICO charges, and still hasn't closed the concentration camps or divested the country from prison chattel slavery. That cracker (and everyone who stumps for him) is my enemy.
Trump has done more for working class people just by stumbling into covid stimulus and pursuing his need for adortion. They need to realize that a lot of Trump voters see him as the lesser of two evils.
there isn't even an electoralist logic to supporting biden now. the administration is sacrificing a major piece of the coalition that forms the DNC's support bloc. trying to bully those people [and anyone who understands political projects] back into line is twisting the knife in an already critical wound. even party reformers should be vocally withholding support for biden. the lesson would be for leadership to understand that there is no segment of the coalition that can be sacrificed without losing the election. that they have found the floor of "giving a fuck" and they can't go any lower.
of course, i think the notion that the democrats do not mind being out of power, as they are primarily a perennial fundraising and campaigning/consulting/advertising organization and major client for highly concentrated media conglomerates, is a tough pill many americans are unwilling to swallow.
as a trans lesbian, I am terrified of another Trump presidency.
that said, I am sick and tired of people like me being used as mere rhetorical pawns by liberals. if democrats cared about trans and queer people locally, if they cared about people of color locally, if they cared about women locally, you know what they would have fucking done? run a viable candidate. stopped supporting Israel's genocide of Palestinians. codified bodily autonomy and freedom of sexuality and gender identity into law. and they have done exactly zero of those things.
I'm tired of pretending democrats are the lesser of two evils. they're not less evil. they're just marginally less forthcoming about their evil, which is honestly worse in a lot of ways. at least Trump says he wants trans people eradicated, meanwhile Biden will make some mushy statement about the Trans Day of Visibility while doing jack shit to protect the rights of trans people in, what, half the country now? over half?
A politician in line with 100% of all my desires? That would be ideal but impractical, so maybe not, but I'm100% opposed to genocide, and I refuse to vote for someone who is even only 99% opposed to genocide. I don't think being 100% opposed to genocide is too high of standard, right? If it is, the Democratic Party needs extreme reevaluation more now than ever.
Before he showed his whole ass with the ongoing genocide I could've held my nose and voted for Bernie who was clearly already a socdem at best. Nowhere near 100% purity, just like, the bare minimum c'mon
Their answer to this is "if you vote for him you can push him left" but none of them can explain how that's supposed to work, as it's just obvious nonsense.
They're just running on auto pilot at this point, mindlessly repeating meaningless soundbytes.
One of those comments that's so stupid that they should legally be required to choke themselves while writing it. Not in a fun way, but like the boot camp scene from Full Metal Jacket.
I should get to vote for a candidate that 100% aligns with my desires.
I'm not American, but if I was I'd hope to get a candidate that aligns with at least some of my desires. So far Biden has done nothing to further leftist causes, nor has he protected people from the right-wings draconian policies. Not to mentioned he has funded genocide, war and imperialism. The dude might as well be a Republican.
Real good look for your so called democracy when you're expected to vote for a candidate you don't want.
Yeah this is what I try explaining to liberals and they don't get it. None of what Biden proposed aligns with my values. Not even the stuff he says about LGBTQ people or people or color because I don't believe he actually cares or is fully compentent to do anything good. Nothing of his platform is good, It's all genocide, conservative stuff, or lies. So why would I want someone who is working towards 0% of what I want?
Honestly, I engage because it allows me to vent the sadism that the past eight years has instilled in me in ways that won't be toxic to anyone worth missing. They're just settlers.
What I love is that with each passing year, Biden has justified my decision not to vote for him. If you wanted my vote back you would have earned it. I was done with the Democratic party after the fuckery that they allowed and rewarded in Iowa. Illegitimate party, illegitimate candidate. If he wanted my vote then he'd better do something I actually like.
Iām trying to think of things Dems have done at the federal level for anything listed there and all I can think of ranges from āactively against meā to ādoing nothing at allā
Liberals would rather look for pearls to clutch about fascists(and then eagerly slob on their boots) rather than rounds to put in them, and this past couple cycles, it shows
Step 1: Vote for the lesser evil so things only get moderately more shitty every day instead of way more shitty every day
Step 1.5: Shut down any alternative to voting for the great shitstain or the greater shitstain. It's one or the other, bucko.
Step 2: Keep voting for the lesser evil for the rest of your life
Step 2.5: Shut down any consideration that a country that forces you to vote for either a great shitstain or a greater shitstain requires fundamental change that cannot and will not come from a ballot box. Shut down any thought that voting for either the great shitstain or the greater shitstain will further cement both their powers so the pipe dream of "change via ballot box" slips further and further away every passing moment.
Step 3: Hope things will get better
Step 3.5: Distract yourself with treats and/or being smug and condescending to those who have not/will not follow steps 1 through to 3 for being privileged
Step 4: Things don't get better, cope because things could have been worse if you didn't valiantly defend the great shitstain to the bitter end.
Step 5: Die miserably under fascism lite, content you didn't die even more miserably under full strength fascism. Don't spend a single moment considering how things might be different.
Do they not realize that they're the ones taking risks? There's a growing progressive base and you're alienating them even if it risks costing you an election.
Libs love to pretend that if you just vote blue enough that the valiant democrats will do another New Deal, or realize the Great Society, or build an American Nordic model, or do anything good.
Even from a left lib position, even if you for some reason believe that Biden actually cares about LGBT people, or trade unions, or making a robust and safe immigration system, or reproductive rights, etc. what has Biden actually done to make the case for himself as the lesser of two evils? As far as I know basically the only accomplishments of the Biden admin are the infrastructure package and taking credit for the economy.
I guess a left lib would probably agree with those, but obviously money for infrastructure in this country is more like a government handout for deeply corrupt construction companies. And I would personally advise libs to stop trying to take credit for Biden fixing the economy. Just because the line goes up doesn't mean the economy is good. Or if it does then whether the economy is good or not doesn't matter to the lives of normal working people because the cost of everything is absolutely fucked. And sure, maybe Biden can't wave his presidential hand and fix that, but he shouldn't take credit for it.
They love to tell on themselves with the "somebody who doesn't 100% allign with my values"
I have literally never once heard somebody say "I agree with them on the fundamental issues but won't be voting for them because of this one issue"
We're not mad you're trying tonget us for somebody we agree with on 90% of stuff but he just has a blind spot on genocide, you're trying to get us to vote for somebody we agree with on 1% of things and actively tells us won't do anything to increase that percent.
I will say this once again since many people do not understand the argument I have been trying to make:
The American electoral system is NOT democratic. You are not voting because you agree with someoneās political platform. You are voting to NOT get punished by the system. It is a hostage situation. You donāt have a choice.
The system is designed to punish those who think they can subvert the electoral system by choosing not to vote. If you donāt vote for Biden, then itās going to give you something worse, and you will have to endure the suffering until you learn to toe the line.
Meanwhile, smug liberals who will not be materially affected by Trumpās policies will be on your face saying āSee, this is what you get by not voting for Biden. Enjoy suffering under Trump!ā
Itās incredible that most people here still donāt realize that they are the hostages in this situation. It really demonstrates how powerful the American propaganda is, even for leftists who think they are too aware to fall for propaganda.
I simply don't believe one president versus another materially impacts American people in meaningfully distinct ways than their opponents. It's all fascism, all the time for the most vulnerable people in society. Incarceration rates stay high, homelessness rates stay high.
The most I'd be willing to say is the president sets a general national vibe that encouraged or discourages random acts of politically motivated violence, usually perpetrated by white supremacists. The Trump presidency saw an increase in mass shootings against queer people and religious buildings like synagogues.
Otherwise I just don't see it. I live in a red state where LGBTQ rights and abortion access are basically gone. And yet Biden is the president. Is genocide supposed to become double genocide with Trump or what?
I have been following this (and that) thread and I think most here (and there) have given you more time of day to refute this than you should have been given. There is not a "something worse" for many, many people living in the United States (and especially abroad, for that matter!) already, and I want to know if you'd tell them the same thing you are telling your presumed audience with this. Just be happy you don't live there for it and come off it already.
you're right, but the counterpoint to this is it doesn't matter. unless you live in like 1 of 5 states, your vote doesn't matter - most Americans' vote do not matter. and even in swing states, the margins are never as close as one vote. so you don't have to vote for Genocide Joe unless you really support him.