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meep_launcher @lemm.ee

What's your plan if Trump wins in November?

I'm feeling so uneasy with everything I've been seeing. I keep thinking about what we will be this time next year, and if shit hits the fan, what is your plan? I'm queer and was politically active in 2020, so I would potentially be considered a political enemy.

The only blueprint I can think of is what you do in an active shooter situation; Flee, Hide, Fight.

I know there's that romantic notion of "don't be a coward, get out and protest", but I remember the brutality of the 2020 protests firsthand, and even then I thought "thank god I'm going toe to toe with the CPD and not the CCP". Next time is going to be different. The president now has authority to send drone strikes. Protests and riots don't stand a chance agains missiles and live rounds.

Flee- I have an Uncle in Montreal who my family could potentially use as a way to at least temporarily escape the chaos. The hope I'd have is that Canada and other countries would accept American refugees, however that's not a guarantee.

Hide- If borders are closed, lay low and move away from major cities if possible. If civil war breaks out, try to get away from the violence even if you think your side will win. Todays losers may be tomorrows victors.

Fight- If cellular data/ social media algorithms can keep track of you, and surveillance can make sure there's no movement, this would be the last resort of desperation. I guess if possible try to either find a group for safety in numbers, or conversely go guerrilla as groups of resistance would make easy targets.

Sorry my mind is running and I'm getting scared.

470 comments

  • “On Tyranny” has some great guidance on this, as well as some guidance on how to do what you can to help put the brakes on it happening.

    TL;DR there’s quite a lot more, but stay off the internet, get used to making small talk, making eye contact. Know who’s in your community physically and who has your back. Renew your passport, make friends in other countries if you can. Make friends. Stay off the internet.

    • It's really hard to make friends in other countries without the internet. Gonna have to go back to ARPANET.

      • He didn’t actually say stay off the internet; that was my oversimplified retelling. A little more complete but still oversimplified version would be: Be careful and don’t share more than what you think is safe to share, and try to focus on the real world as much as you can. The real world doesn’t have mass surveillance in quite such a prepackaged and straightforward fashion, and it is where all the real outcomes good or bad will eventually take place anyway, so prioritize it as much as you can.

    • Curious: Why "stay off the internet" ? It's mentioned twice, so I'm assuming for a good reason.

      Is that a mental health thing or a keep from being profiled/targeted thing?

      • It is soo easy to forget about just how much identifying metadata you leave on the internet just by reading stuff.

        You know the cookie banners you see? Those that claim to let you opt out from being tracked by advertisers?

        Yeah, those are just the overt tracking mechanism, tracking pixels are far far more insidious.

        Lets backtrack a bit, back when Facebook started getting big, companies started embedded Like buttons on their webpages, cool right? You could just click the Like button and it would help you post a link to your Facebook feed to the page you were visiting.

        Seems fine, right? What's the issue?

        It would be fine if the image of the Like button was stored on the local web server hosting the rest of the site.

        But it isn't.

        It is stored on Facebook's servers, it is stored in a way that every single Like button has their own ID, so every time you load up your favourite website about abandoned radiation experiment sites it makes your browser send a request to Facebook's servers as well and depending on how the request is sent they can at minimum log that your IP address loaded the Like button with the ID number X, the ID number X is tied to the specific webpage you visited.

        Then you go and do some research on impotense and how to cure it, the pages you read all have Like buttons as above, but with their own ID numbers, Facebook now knows at a minimum that you are a man who is interested in science, technology, society and modern history, you may also suffer from impotense.

        Well, you keep browsing the web and read local news, well the Like button is also there, and with the ID number Facebook can add an area of interest to your profile.

        It keeps going like this, but with one huge important change, people are starting getting warey of the Like buttons and Facebook in general, so they simply remove the button, while introducing the tracking pixel, a 1px*1px transparent picture, it works like how the Like button loads, and keeps generating data for Facebook.

        Facebook is not alone in this, I just used them as an example.

        You can read more here:

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spy_pixel

        This is also not even getting into browser fingerprinting.

      • Your IP addresses, home, cellphone, etc.. They all lead back to your actual home address where you can be identified.

  • A better question would be what are you going to do to make sure the orange Mussolini doesn't win?

    Make sure you, your friends, and your family are Registered to vote.

    Make sure everyone you know gets to the polls on our before election day.

    Become a poll worker.

    We need to make sure we vote in numbers too big to steal. In 2000 the election was handed to Bush by the Supreme Court because of one state. Looking at the last term, the court would absolutely find a way to shift the election to the con in chief if it was just one swing state with irregularities.

    Talk to people about project 2025 and what it will mean. This is how the guardrails from 2017 are removed. This is how we start a Christian theocracy. If we vote blue all the way down, the Dems may be able to put stronger rails in place. If it's not Project 2025 it will be Project 2029. These conservative think tanks have been doing this since Reagan, but this is by far the scariest.

    Talk to friends and family about the Biden administration wins. It's not just Biden you're voting for, it is a continuation of his administration.

    Bottom line, this is likely the most important election of many of our lives. All of us must participate.

      • saving the economy,
      • forgiving school loans,
      • cutting insulin costs (THIS SAVED SO MANY LIVES IT’S BONKERS),
      • stood up for unions & labor (FIRST PRESIDENT TO EVER WALK A PICKET LINE),
      • increased overtime for millions,
      • ended federally subsidized discriminatory mortgage lending,
      • went after airlines, cable companies, phone companies, concert ticket sales and hotels for their fucking ridiculous hidden fees!,
      • brought back net neutrality,
      • he's gonna try to tax billionaires!

  • As a non American living outside of the US; I'm much more concerned about a second Trump term.

    The first one was mostly just annoying, funny and embarrassing for you guys.

    This time he'll be taking over with war in Europe and the whole Israel/Gaza thing. There is quite a lot of damage he can do...

  • As someone who might be targeted and killed as this drags on, I'm not really worrying about it much. Control whatever you can, be aware obviously, but what more could you possibly do? Monday's ruling is already in the past - I mean to say that we've already made our choices, long ago (some people have seen this coming for nearly a decade now), and all that is left is to live (or whatever) with them. It "helps" that climate change awaits to kill us all regardless of who wins the next election. To be clear, no I do not say that lightly.

    Hypothetical illustration: let's say that you are a deer caught in the headlights of a car. Do you jump forward? Backwards? Remain still? Duck? Jump straight up vertically into the air as high as you can? Once in this position, no matter what you do there are risks, and your choices are limited, with the outcome of your decisions mostly not up to you. Side-note: you could maybe not have jumped out straight in front of a speeding car... but that choice is behind you now, and you can only deal with what is, not what you wish had been.

    So don't panic unduly - that isn't helpful - just focus on doing the next correct thing, and the rest... well, isn't up to you.

    • Not trying to rain on your parade (pun) but you may have been getting your climate change info only from the headlines of for-profit publications which rely on advertising for income. No reputable scientific consensus report indicates we’re all going to die or anything close.

      Disasters will cause more damage and food will be more expensive. That’s the effects which Americans will experience for as far as the predictions can go.

      I’ll link to IPCC in a sec.

      https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar6/wg2/downloads/report/IPCC_AR6_WGII_SummaryForPolicymakers.pdf

      • No reputable scientific consensus report indicates we’re all going to die or anything close.

        Depends who you are. Middle-class american living not too close to a coast? Yea you're probably fine, you'll get hotter summers and colder winters but you'll survive.

        Poor and living nearby to coast or such that can get more easily affected by climate change? You could be pretty fucked by mother nature by chance.

      • Okay I brought that on myself there by adding

        To be clear, no I do not say that lightly.

        First, we are blowing waaay past all earlier expectations, e.g. those made a decade ago. Second, as the other commenter said, we aren't all going to make it (though you are correct, neither are we "all" going to die - I was being hyperbolic, but then later came and added the aforementioned sentence that did not mesh well into my comment). Third, the randomness of it all is mind-boggling, e.g. remember that one day that the temperature went up by a full 70 degrees F? Imagine it being 100 degrees already, as so many places already (almost) are in the USA, and then such a spike occurs making it 170 for that day - yeah, some people are going to survive it, but what about the plants, the animals, i.e. the crops, the wildlife, the entire ecosystem that exists outside of a cushy building that has A/C?

        Anyway, thank you for the correction. I should have said that we aren't all going to make it.

        Wait, scratch that - "many" rather than "all"!:-P

        All of that aside, it does seem a pretty huge deal, more so than these political matters even.

  • Stay and vote. The way I see it, Canada is fucked if PP wins anyways, and will be hurt by Trump regardless. Europe is fucked if the alt right wins in France and hobbles Germany in the next couple elections. Nigel Farage is going to parasitically eat the conservatives from the inside out in the UK. Trump will pull put of NATO, which means war on Europe's doorstep and probably all of south east Asia if China decides they don't mind war.

    Running isn't going to work. Voting and protesting and political action is what will keep us all at peace and ever vigilant against populism and later, fascism. All hope isn't lost. We still can undo the damage and categorically reject hate and corruption that is threatening democracies worldwide (and already dooming authoritarian countries with massive population gaps and economic damage)

  • My kids both have autism and higher needs. I also have this population of clients. I can’t just uproot, honestly. Sit back and have a drink. Continue to teach the kids skills for stay-at-home careers and maintain a low profile.

  • I’ve been saving for a down payment for a house for two years. It would appear my money is not wanted in the USA. I also have dual EU citizenship. My plan is to improve my spoken German and take my family overseas.

    As an atheist married to a Salvadoran woman with whom I have two hispanic children, I feel like after they run out of illegal immigrants we’ll not be far down the “committing suicide with two bullets to the back of the head” list. Or maybe we’ll just get sent to a camp that treats ADHD if you catch my drift.

    I visited Germany in 2022 and was very impressed with the walkable/bikeable infrastructure and ICE trains even if they were late on occasion. The food wasn’t my favorite but the culture and people were kind and they still seem to value rule of law and societal decorum to a certain degree. The idea that making a nazi salute in public is jailable/fineable is really how it should be everywhere but “free speech” yadda yadda…

    I have wanted to leave the US since 2003. Just didn’t have skills or money until now. I’m still going to struggle with a language barrier and finding a job with A2 level German. That’s my biggest issue right now I think.

    My mom moved to the US not knowing English. How the turntables have turned.

    • As a German: You'll be welcomed and appreciated, just know that we too are fighting a political right shift and that the neonazi AfD might emerge as one of, if not the strongest party next election cycle. Especially if Trump wins this will float nationalist and fascists in Europe on the rising brown tide. It's extremely unlikely they'll end up in government though.

      Generally immigrants from the US are quite happy over here and report high satisfaction with their move if they have a) children or b) health issues that cost an arm and a leg in the US and also bring a patience for German bureaucracy and good language skills.

      Since you have German citizenship you are free to also consider the Netherlands (easier finding a job with only English, way higher cost of housing) or other EU countries, since you can settle in any one thanks to freedom of movement (Spain might be easier on your wife, since she'll speak the language).

      • So because I’m in a first past the post system over here, how does that work? You will still have other parties that can form a coalition against the right at that point? Assuming they don’t get 50+% of the vote, correct? The courts here are already fascist and preparing for the takeover due to Trump’s judge appointments during his term. Congress is deadlocked and useless as usual, and Biden is circling the drain figuratively and literally. There is no run off here. No coalitions to be had. Trump gets 47%, Biden 46%, and Kennedy 7%? Trump becomes president even though over half the country doesn’t want him. What’s worse is that he only needs percentages of the electoral college and not actual votes.

        Germany, at least from my outsider perspective, seems to understand its history enough to be minimizing the right wing to its true proportions. But yeah, I’m well aware the developed world is going to shit. I’m not really sure what to do about it or where to go. The USA feels like ground zero for this shit due to Trump being in Russia’s pocket. That propaganda op worked better than anything they’ve ever done in the past. Even they probably can’t believe how successful they’ve been.

        We looked at Spain, but ultimately the salaries are so low that we wouldn’t be able to afford to fly home to visit relatives and friends assuming we can still do that post Trump. I guess I’m not writing off the US entirely just yet but it’s not looking too great.

        Thanks for your advice and well wishes. I hope to vote against AfD if/when I get there.

    • you have to admit, moving to germany to avoid deathcamps has some hiarlous irony

  • I have, because of my father, dual citizenship with the UK and now that Labour has gotten in, I feel like that's a legitimate way out, so I am expediting getting a UK passport.

    Due to a technicality of the sort that their bureaucracy will hate, I also have the possibility of German citizenship. I'd much rather have the ability to live and work in the EU, so I'll probably start working on that when I get to the UK.

    My daughter is queer, I'm Jewish and (although this may not sound like a problem to some of you, I suggest researching it) my wife is a librarian, so I want an exit plan.

  • You escape BEFORE the regime change. You do not wait to escape.

    It was evident that this was the path the US chose in 2008 election vitriol and then 2012 with the tea party. Then in 2016 Trump, it was as blatant as can be. You've had 8 years to plan and leave. You now have 6 months.

    Make sure you have a passport. You should have been trying to obtain secondary citizenship. Even with all the money and education, you are only allowed to stay in a foreign country on a residency visa. Americans call theirs a green card for example. It is tied to your passport. When your passport expires, OR IS CANCELLED, then all the visas tied to it are also affected. In some places you can stay as you transfer your visa to your new passport. Some places you cannot, you must exit and re-enter. If your passport is invalid, you can only exit back to the USA if you are only American. The cancelled part is the scary part because the USA already does this. If you don't pay your taxes, or child support or if you have a warrant or even probable cause against you the US will cancel your passport. It's the easiest way to force Americans back home for prosecution.

    Your #1 goal should be starting to obtain citizenship elsewhere. If you have grandparents from Europe, see if you can get it. You have relatives in Canada, mayve you can get it. If you can't, then start looking to buy citizenship or residency with a path to citizenship. This is 6 figures and can be instant like Vanuatu or take years like most of Europe. But again, better to start now.

    As the Chinese routinely say, the best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time, is now.

    The US is vast and it's unlikely to devolve into anarchy. It may get very violent and bloody or it may become more like a governmental issue where you just get locked up if you're bad. In that case storing some of your stuff in a storage area isn't too risky. If it goes into anarchy, then it'll be lost. Otherwise just keep paying and avoid.

    I believe we're looking right at 1930's Germany. The parallels are uncanny. Those who survived, left. Those that waited until they were being rounded up to leave, mostly did not make it. And they lost everything they had and their families ever had.

    I completed my move out 4 years ago now. I can now eat popcorn and watch the US implode from the other side of the world. I will lose some money, some possessions, and unimportant things. But my keepsakes and most of my assets are now free of the US.

  • I'm applying ASAP to renaturalize in Europe. My ancestors survived by leaving shit hole countries when it was obvious they were going to start wars and become fascists, I'll follow suit. Fuck this place. Wish I started the process sooner.

  • Let's just say I bought a large cargo trailer, that admittedly serves multiple purposes, but one of those is for emergency scenarios.

    If things get really bad, my wife and I have careers that makes going to Canada or Germany or Norway somewhat viable.

    I'm not having my family go down with the ship. Let them sink. I have far more responsibility to my kids than to my country. Like the brain-drain on Nazi Germany or Russia as of late, I'll have no problem going and enriching another nation with more sane people. (with recognition there is some degree of crazy everywhere).

    What's so sad is that the ignorance that is perpetuating this modern absurdity and making someone like Trump viable in the first place is so deep that even if things come crashing down, they'll be too stupid to point the finger at the actual problem.

  • I'm lucky enough to have some security, so my plan is lay low and where I can play safehouse for the folks that need it, I'm not a fighter, but I have what I need and a little more, and I can use that to help whoever needs it.

    I've got ideas for what the post crisis should look like, so probably try to find ways to network with the folks who are likely to be making that transition once this inevitably burns itself out.

    Meantime, vote. Vote like your life depends on it because the odds are that you know someone who's life does.

    Time is our shield, and even if it's only another four years, it's four more years the windbag has to survive into his 80s to take another crack at it, by which time the crop of Dem governors are going to be making enough noise to be suitable replacements for Biden, and if he drops dead in that time, it is very likely the movement will be demoralized the same way JFK and RFK dying took the wind out of the Democrat's sails.

    The Redcaps are a cult, when the prophet of a cult dies without an already established right hand who can take over and reconsolidate the movement, the whole thing collapses under its own weight and the shock and grief of its members.

    They aren't gonna wake up to how wrong they've been, but they are gonna spiral hard and be unable to keep up the energy.

470 comments