Liquid Trees

I want to say deployment time is faster with the algae, you can also get hydrogen from the biomass

Isn’t spirulina more effective for capturing carbon than trees? And also you can eat it in the way you don’t normally eat trees? Trees are great and all but why do you want me to be angry about algae?

Gooooood Morning Night City!
- Algae in water doesn't burn like trees
  Checkmate commies !

Let's go for a walk in the park - they just cleaned the algae tanks!

Why is this on the self hosting community
- Self hosting a tree
  
  sigh take your upvote
- The water is hosting algae
  
  Looks like one of them fish tank PC cases that are apparently a thing.
- self hosting is anti-capitalist, so is being against urban brutalism.
  
  I can kinda see that, yeah. 👍

homeless people find sitting in the shade of trees to be comfortable, and the city whole point of urban design is to make them uncomfortable and to suffer

I think it’s probably cheaper in the long run to self host a tree instead, unless you live in an apartment with absolutely no green space. But I’d rather get a VPF and host a tree there if I had too
- Problem with VPFs is irrigation throttling, or lack thereof. Most people are cool, but I've heard of people hosting exotics which just max out downstream 24/7. Plus everyone has root access which gets abused frequently.

I had the same reaction until I read this.
TL;DR: it's 10-50x more efficient at cleaning the air and actually generates both electricity and fertiliser.
Yes, it would be better to just get rid of all the cars generating the pollution in the first place and putting in some more trees, but there are clear advantages to this.
- How long does it take to break even from the pollution and electricity spent to make and install these?
  
  5
- I appreciate Rebecca Watson's opinion. Watched the 6min video, now convinced 👍
  Also learned a new term: kneejerk cynicism
- It provides fertilizer but needs "some food".
  How much food and what is it?
  Typically for aquariums you have to feed these things fertilizer so it seems odd
  
  It's just some circle of life stuff, fertilizer, carbon dioxide, light in, The algae produces more algae. It loads up on a bunch of carbon, some of the bloom dies off, by removing it, you take the carbon with it along with some of the fertilizer components. You add a little more fertilizer in and the algae blooms more and sucks up more carbon dioxide.
  
  How much food and what is it?
  ...Did we mention it doubles as a convenient dumping ground for mob snitches?

Why is this in self hosted?
- in case you want to self-host your own algae, I guess
  
  Can I combine this with my water-cooling setup?
  
  Just give me a 4U tank somewhere where someone else can deal with harvesting the algae and a webcam aimed at it and I can enjoy it just fine from here. For me, selfhosting is mostly about the privacy, not principally about needing to be resistant to loss of Internet connectivity or the like.
  
  I have seen a few guides on growing your own algae including from CodySlab.
- It has a USB port.
- Come on, you know there's someone out there trying to work out how to selfhost one of these.
  
  I have a birth bath I don't ever replace the water in. Its like a shrub to me.

Does this count too?
I already posted this on !balconygardening@slrpnk.net. .
I'm purposefully growing duckweed on my balcony.
I'm doing !hydroponics@slrpnk.net, and by doing that, I have lots of waste water with still good fertilizer in it.
Duckweed is one of the fastest growing, nutrient densest and least demanding plant out there, and you can just scoop it out with a strainer.
It's exponentially growing and if you don't wanna eat it, it makes great organic fertiliser or animal feed with lots of protein and micronutients!

Short answer: the bank won't give your shiny new tree-planting business a loan as easily as it will to a "liquid tank tree replacement" one.
Long answer:
Trees take time to grow
Trees need to be planted
Trees make shade
Animals like birds and insects like bees and mosquitos like to live next to them
Trees don't need electricity
Trees take in heat radiated from the pavement
Trees don't look cool
While algae are more efficient at turning CO2 into oxygen in theory, in practice algae don't have a good climate in such a tank (no oxygen without ventilation, i.e. constant electricity and they get cooked through the glass).
All in all, more of a gimmick than anything.
- Trees don’t look cool
  You take that back!
  
  was about to furiously reply with the same retort... but yeah. I LOVE green spaces
- Roots limit where they can grow without messing up infrastructure.
  
  Yeah this is a big problem I see often. You have underground utilities? Tree planting becomes a huge thing. And in a lot of these walkable areas, places you'd want trees, folks tend to also prefer not to have the wires overhead with telephone poles everywhere, and so they've been backed into a corner.
  I did just sit through a presentation by my local environmental commission where they addressed the issue. The solution seems to be trees bred for the specific environment: deciduous provides shade but doesn't drop a lot of leaves; can grow tall but the root ball grows in a certain way so as not to interrupt sidewalks and utilities; hearty and resilient. I can't recall the trees, but they were described as essentially not naturally occuring.
- Trees take time to grow
  Sure, of course not removing literally all of them in the first place is preferable but hindsight is 20/20 I guess. And good things come to those who wait.
  Trees need to be planted
  True, planting a tree seems a bit easier than installing a weird tank though, despite time to grow.
  Trees make shade
  Good.
  Animals like birds and insects like bees and mosquitos like to live next to them
  Good.
  Trees don't need electricity
  Good.
  Trees take in heat radiated from the pavement
  Good.
  Trees don't look cool
  Bullshit.
- Aren't like half of those bullet points positives? Also in addition to what you said once you got a tree you got a tree, those tanks need constant maintenence and cycling which I doubt anyone is going to bother with for more than a year after installing them.
  
  The comment you replying to was trying to not so subtly point out this is a business plot and little else. Nobody is going to pay a subscription fee to have a tree in front of their business, but they might cough up money for a third party to maintain a tank of algae out front if it was sold right

Wrong community, maybe? Lol
iirc, algae are better oxygen producers per units of mass and volume, so a tank full of algae might actually be better than a tree. One issue though is that trees can grow on open ground, while algae require a tank to be built, most likely negating the economic benefits. Also, trees are more aesthetically pleasing.
- What? You don't like future jelly tree?

It's not an either/or thing, the tank in the picture is literally sitting under a tree

I like how everyone is acting like it is normal to have this in self hosted
- I love this about lemmy.
  Like someone stumbling into the wrong house and still being welcomed.
  It's a lot more informal and relaxed than on the piss page of the Internet.

It sounded cool a couple of years ago, but it was first installed in 2021 and I'm yet to hear of it really going anywhere.

Because there's no serious answers being given even though there are at least 2:
trees have roots, roots ruin any nearby human infrastructure. You'll note this says "in urban environments" and that there are trees nearby, so this is probably the big reason
trees need maintenance, which costs money. this is a stupid reason imo, but it's one nonetheless
algae is cool, ok?
- Algae is also more efficient per cubic meter, if I understand correctly.
  
  Not just more efficient, vastly more efficient. Algae is 10-50 times faster at processing CO² than trees are. Some algae can be up to 400x as efficient.
  It's just not as "nice" to look at, we usually associate algae with growth in unsafe bodies of water like bogs, etc. versus a nice clean pool or even a maintained pond.
- On the other hand, algae do not produce shade, not sure if it filters atmospheric pollutants, and trees provide all sort of other services to the local ecosystem.
  Maybe this invention can be used on places where trees cannot lives, but I'd still take a city with trees over a city full of green tanks.
  
  Maybe this invention can be used on places where trees cannot lives, but I'd still take a city with trees over a city full of green tanks.
  These in the spots where trees once stood but were too destructive & trees everywhere else imo. Cool tech future AND trees, plus these are benches too it looks like
- Don't forget pollen and seeds.
  
  Bees need pollen. We need bees and you can self host them.
  
  Oh yeah
  I'm one of those elites who don't have allergies so I tend to forget 😎😎😎
- Bet that algae box will need maintenance too :-)
  
  Every 6 months half of it gets removed, to use as fertiliser, and it is refilled with tap water and some feed.
- "let's uproot all these trees and invade this space. and when the roots of the few remaining trees do what they are supposed to do, let's blame them for 'ruining' human infrastructure!"
- trees dont ruin ANY human infrastructure. But the usual urban infrastructure isnt well thought out enough to exist around trees. But smarter urbanism is possible and in fact does exist.
  
  trees dont ruin ANY human infrastructure
  I think you mean all, as this reads more like "nuh uh, trees don't ruin anything"
  But smarter urbanism is possible and in fact does exist.
  And those are not the norm, so for places that don't plan to just destroy what's already there and start anew, this is an option
  
  People ruin nature's infrastructure

How do I self host these? I tried docker run liquidtrees it didn't work
- Try
  docker run liquidtrees:micro-algae
  
  I think there's an alpine build too if your system has low oxygen levels
  
  Instructions unclear, installed Liquid Swords.
- git clone https://aur.archlinux.org/liquidtrees.git && cd liquidtrees && makepkg
  or
  add https://repo.30p87.de/private/archlinux as a repo, and sudo pacman -Sy liquidtrees. Then sudo systemctl enable --now liquidtrees
  
  Just tried this and my DE got replaced with Sway and now there’s algae oozing out of my keyboard
- They're not stupid; its not in docker. Check apt.

How's my dog supposed to piss on that
- I don't think your dog will see that as problematic.

Practical answer, fits in places trees may not. Pessimistic answer, fits in some guys cyberpunk ass vision for what he wants his office block to look like.

Nothing is wrong with trees, but the [microalgae CO2 capture rate is 50x higher````` ](https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/14/7/3801).
- Their lifetime is also much shorter. Guess where all that CO2 goes, when they die ^^
  
  Wherever you put it?
  
  I have a solution. More algae.
  
  Fertilizer
- I'm gonna bet that you're going to get a much-more-economical return there by powdering whatever iron is used in building that thing and then dumping said iron powder into the ocean at an appropriate point.
  
  This technique is controversial because there is limited understanding of its complete effects on the marine ecosystem,[5] including side effects and possibly large deviations from expected behavior. Such effects potentially include release of nitrogen oxides,[6] and disruption of the ocean's nutrient balance.[1] Controversy remains over the effectiveness of atmospheric CO2 sequestration and ecological effects.
  Geoengineering is bullshit proposed by funding from fossil fuel companies so they can continue to pollute.
  The solution is simple: make it illegal to pollute. Fine the companies responsible for their past contributions to the climate catastrophe out of existence.

I don’t think anything’s wrong with trees, but maybe we could also have some of these as well as trees ?
Replace the advertisements on bus stops with a really cool green liquid wall 😮 (but they’d have to make the glass super thick, these things tend to be vandalized from time to time)
- I don’t think anything’s wrong with trees, but maybe we could also have some of these as well as trees ?
  First of all nobody is proposing to replace existing trees with that, that would be silly! AFAIU the people who created this also don't want these to be used where trees could be planted. They are outspokenly designed for already densely packed cities that are already highly polluted and hostile to trees, to start turning things around. Rebecca Watson's 6min take

@ECEC Good lord the number of replies here from people whose brains have been destroyed by "planners"...
Trees lower the urban heat island effect.
There's plenty of room for trees in dense places, so long as "density" means efficient housing and efficient transportation rather than parking lots and stroads and single-family homes.
Someone said "trees require maintenance", as if asphalt & pretty much everything doesn't require maintenance?
Trees harm cars. But cars harm cars too!
- Trees are also essential for insects, bird and animal life in cities. They are psychologically calming for people as well.
  
  They are psychologically calming for people as well.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dendrocnide_moroides
  Dendrocnide moroides, commonly known in Australia as the stinging tree, stinging bush, or gympie-gympie, is a plant in the nettle family Urticaceae found in rainforest areas of Malesia and Australia.[3] It is notorious for its extremely painful and long-lasting sting.
  Depends on the tree.
- There's plenty of room for trees in new dense places, sure. But if you're in the parts of London with old ass-narrow ass-streets, this may be less true.
  
  London is the perfect place for some futuristic cyberpunk distopia !
  The rest of the world (except some highly polluting countries who anyway doesn't give a shit about the environment...) can keep the trees&bees and build arround it ! :)
- trees are great, this algae tank is just likely more efficient at producing oxygen

Trees grow and rip up the pavement around them. I do love the canopy though
- Line the plater with steel, and this is not a problem. Bonus: trees are dwarfs and don't present risks of falling on structures in storms.
- So, uh, what's wrong with that?
  
  It makes it difficult to use the pavement, especially for elderly people and people with disabilities, costs the council a bunch of time and money to repair, and doing the repairs often require killing off the tree
  
  So, uh, what’s wrong with that?
  ... with damaging infrastructure? Well, presumably the infrastructure will no longer be as good at serving its original purpose once it is damaged.

Not liquid enough.

Good post.
Wrong community.
- Maybe, I'm self hosting several trees, so... 🤷‍♂️

Is it FOSS?
- Looks more like MOSS.
- Trees are FOSS. This is a fork of trees.
  
  Source?
  
  Looks more like a complete rewrite to me.
- As I recall, at least under US law, you can't copyright genetically-engineered life, just get a twenty year biological patent. So I don't think that FOSS status would be directly germane other than maybe in how some such licenses might deal with patent licensing.

Elon musk going into the tree business I see.

A big problem with trees is roots, especially in cities with dense underground infrastructure. If there’s an actual way to produce the same amount of oxygen as a tree in a smaller space, I’m all for it. I’m honestly okay with how these look, assuming low maintenance.

Devil's advocate:
These cost far less to maintain than having a team or two dedicated to upkeep for the trees.
That said, these things are a terrible idea, clearly the brainchild of clueless techbros, and overall a massive eyesore. Trees are objectively the better option. Just not Bradford Pear trees... Anything but the cum tree.
- These probably require more maintenance and not less, glass needs to be regularly cleaned and water changed and fertilized, what will happen when company stops supporting this proprietary algae aquariums?
  
  All valid points.
  I was going off the assumption that these are a sort of self-sustaining terrarium.
- I don't agree that these are an eyesore, they are not as pretty as a tree, no, but disgustingly ugly? Nah.
  Seems like a decent idea if you have an over developed location where you can't plant a tree.
- The "cost" of maintaining trees is paid by the city to people living, buying things and paying taxes in the city.
  People who don't have a college education and get to make a living working outside, improving their neighborhood.
  The fake trees are likely put up and maintained by a tech corporation from out of state.
  
  Yes, yes, and yes.
- Someones gunna break it too.
  
  Oh absolutely.

Have you ever seen how long it takes for a tree to grow?
- Depends on the variety of course... my Willows need cutting down, whereas the acorns I planted before the willows are still tiny oaks in pots 🙂

Very cyberpunk

So I appreciate some outside the box thinking. But this just reeks of techbros invent trees but worse. Most of the considerations below seem to think trees and cars are natural enemies, I would argue we reduce cars instead.

Trees don't make number go up.
- Don't you want to subscribe to our Tree Ultimate program, that will give you a limited access to a living tree for 199.99 a month or 1999 a year?

pm2 restart liquidtrees

at least give it some shape that is not an eye sore to start with

Liquid Trees! Slam it down fast!

'What's wrong with trees? They're taking up space for real estate development, stupid peasant."

The most dystopian thing I've seen... Fuck, idk, it's all pretty dystopian these days, I've lost count

The only liquid trees I approve of are the kinds that come in a 510 threaded cart and you smoke.
- You can bioengineer algae to do pretty much anything.

Yeah, those are going to last at -40F/-40C nights we often experience where I live. Nor do I see them being able to add any cool relief from their shade on a hot day.
That said, it is hard to grow healthy trees in the poisoned soils of a big city. They tend to struggle and be sickly when choked by concrete and asphalt.
- Oh thats why the box below it provides heating and cooling. Its powered by a gasoline generator.

Enjoy the mosquitos

So, they left a bucket of water to stagnate next to a bus stop?
- My neighbor's pool is looking like a liquid tree, nobody's writing articles about him.

I’m only conjecturing, but there may be cities where planting trees isn’t feasible due to density of the city and the surrounding infrastructure. It may be cheaper to use these in place of trees, though I admit I know nothing about what’s pictured.

this
https://youtube.com/watch?v=DZ_T4zMBx6E
ik its youtube, calm down your pitchforks

I like the innovation this, it could lead to another and better idea.
Also what are the chance that once they're deployed, somebody run into one on the first day? Pretty good I bet.

pro que no los dos?

This is like 15 years out of date.

white people slowly reinventing aquaculture
- kagis
  https://liquidtrees.org/team
  Nine Indians, four Spaniards, and a German, apparently.
  
  How much better are Kagi search results? Would you say it is worth using over something like searx?

@ECEC
Any city manager could tell you everything wrong with having trees downtown.
Birds get into them and when they're nesting, they attack anybody walking by
Birds also shit on the cars parked under them, and most drivers look for shade to park under
Bugs get into them and attract birds when birds aren't nesting
Trees drop sap, which also ruins a car's finish
city workers have to spend time on the clock keeping the leaves picked up off the ground
Yeah, the drawback is that the algae don't provide shade.
- @claralistensprechen5th @ECEC Sounds like the problem is cars, not trees.
  FuckCars
  
  @Andres4NY @ECEC
  Cars and trees in the inner city are a combination of problems.
  I did leave one tree problem out: they grow.
  When their roots are surrounded and covered by concrete, the concrete buckles. So do the streets. Unfortunately, city streets are specifically for cars.