Can you muppets stop throwing away money on awful companies producing subpar games?
I propose 2024 is the year of early access games boycott.
Bring back completed games only.
Eh, early access isn't the problem. Palworld has been wrecking Pokemon despite being Early Access
Can 2024 instead be the year of bad game boycott? When an early access game is better than most AAA completed games, then there's a serious problem
If we could all just agree to not preorder, I’ll negotiate from there.
i never preorder, and i don't think i could justify jt even if i did. buying a game for 70 bucks when you don't even know if it's any good just sounds stupid to me.
Early Access is a problem when big publishers try to do it. It makes sense that indies do it so they have cash flow at all. Big outlets have funding on hand, but are trying to leverage it, anyway.
Using us as test dummies is still better than releasing an unfinished piece of shit for full price.
kinda like what's going on with Last Epoch and Diablo IV
Is this post not about Palworld?
Now it is
I mean, just do a little due diligence, Jesus. I've bought PalWorld, Planet Crafter, Traveler's Rest, and more in early access and had a blast with all of them. In fact, I'd say it's some of the best bang for my buck in the last ten years of gaming. I've also not bought early access games because the five minutes of due diligence suggested that it was a garbage game.
I particularly think it's fine with small, indie studios that don't have a lot of devs or resources. No way in fuck am I buying an early access AAA release.
Couldn't agree more.
Games like Valheim or Satisfactory have also been great, despite technically still being in early Access. And, looking back, Risk of Rain 2, Hades and Dead Cells developers have all done excellent job at using early access to develop their games and listen to the community.
Early access, just like any other development model, is a tool. All depends on how it is used.
Pocketpair releasing Palworld into Early Access when Craftopia is still in Early Access leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth
Right? People need to take a little responsibility. If you want early access, expect issues. If you don't want to see issues, wait. Easy. What's the point complaining about a company providing early access or other gamers purchasing it? You don't need to make it your business, just don't buy the game yet if it bothers you.
Yep. The indie boom that PC gaming experienced would not have been possible without early access funding, full stop.
Not every early access title has gone perfectly and there are some studios that have gamed the system.
Still, the stuff that managed to make it through the process and become successful has been some of the only stuff saving us from a live service hellscape
Satisfactory I bought for 30 dollars 4 years ago and it's sitting at 1,600 hours for me. I think sweeping general statements are really the bad guy here
the journey of this game is wild.
it was super fun from the get go years ago, but somehow every single update made it better and better.
i haven't seen a game with such a focus on quality of life updates before. that team is glorious
My rule is that it has to be an enjoyable experience in the game's current state. Factorio was fantastic years before it left early access. I bought Space Engineers practically as soon as it hit, before there was even proper weapons in the game, and I had a blast building space ships.
I'm holding off on Palworld. I'm sure what's there is enjoyable for many people, but I'd like to see the endgame fleshed out a bit first.
It'd be nice, if those AAA games were at least marked as early access instead of just being released and sold as something finished. But yes, you're correct.
Eh, I bought Grounded in Early Access. Maye by Obsidian and backed by Microsoft. I think this should count as AAA. Also I think you don't mean that "small, indie studio" cause those are few and far between. Sons of the Forest? They have a Publisher (literally the opposite of being independent). I think there are lots of games which you have put into that category that are not actually indie devs at all. Anyway, my point is just that it's not a black and white issue.
The games I have bought in early access:
Early access isn't the problem.
Was just gonna say I've put an embarrassing amount of hours into Satisfactory, which is an "early access" game I paid like $20 for. Nothing wrong with it. It's not an abandoned product, but even if it was I'd have a hard time complaining about it.
I have 1000 hours in Satisfactory. And there's a LOT currently wrong with it. Tons of bugs, incomplete mechanics, performance issues, and it got worse in Update 8 not better because of the engine update.
That said, the team is working on it, Coffee Stain will get it ironed out and release a solid v1.0.
Project zomboid
Deep Rock Galactic
Did i hear a Rock and Stone?
Rimworld
Same here with 7D2D I have over 1k hours on it and it's still fresh to me.
And there's more than one way to do EA.
KSP 1 started small and free, added more stuff and went purchase but cheap. On the other hand, KSP 2 went straight for full-price AAA game price yet lacked a ton of features and terrible performance (it was clearly rushed out).
100% the way to play video games these days.
I bought Deep Rock Galactic, Subnautica, annd Satisfactory in early access and have no regrets. These are great games and I would rather pay to be a beta tester on them than play many AAA finished pieces of junk. I think in general it’s not a bad thing to be wary about early access but I’m not sure it warrants an all or nothing approach.
Nuance? On the internet? Get the fuck out of here.
The thing is, early access games aren't necessary unplayable.
If they are good enough in their current form to warrant the price, then that is a good time to buy them. The updates are only a bonus at that point.
But don't buy early access for the promised features, since they may never arrive.
Yup. Palworld needs a lot of polish, but I don't feel bad spending 25 bucks on it as it is.
As I mentioned elsewhere, valheim, 7 days to die, rust (now released!) are all worth.
I like early access games because at least you know the game is unfinished.
And the game is making money while still being in development, so the devs can take their time without having to worry about deadlines.
Early access games can also change fundamental gameplay aspects since it's in development, so if a feature sucks, they can just remove it.
Yup. The alternatives are pre-orders and broken games that are unplayable until the first couple of patches.
so if a feature sucks, they can just remove it
Unfortunately if you liked that feature, it is gone now.
I like the GOG approach to EA:
"Rollback in GOG GALAXY — Keep playing your game if the newest update is not doing it for you, or revisit historical version snapshots."
https://support.gog.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000591705-Early-Access-as-it-is?product=gog
Fair, but it's an early access game, and still in development.
Also, I didn't know about that GOG thing. I wish that was more common.
Iirc there's ways in steam to do the same thing, though I believe it's a bit more involved of a process.
I used to play a ton of this game Magicite before the developer destroyed the game with its final update which came out conveniently around the release of their next game. Which they did again for that next title, and again for the one after that.
And by destroy I mean now you have a chance to soft lock in every level, picking up specific auto loot items can cause shops to permanently close up, crafting certain items cause glitchy behavior, co-op went from "minimum one person must survive each level" to "the first death causes everyone to instantly fail", and the game crashes on the final boss fight before counting it as completed.
Every recommendation I've seen for this game also comes with an explanation on how to revert to the second latest version of the game.
Meanwhile, team cherry keeps adding stuff to Silksong until they run out of money
It's going to be Silksymphony at this rate.
You can figure this out by playing the finished game years later. Why is everyone trying to keep up with the Joneses over video games??? Lol
Because they can still be great games. Rust was in early access for years but it was always playable and fun. 7 days to die is on alpha build 21 and has been in alpha for I don't know how long but it's amazing. Valheim was basically perfect from the start even if it was missing the whole end half of the game.
Palworld is a very good start. There's a bunch of QOL changes and bug fixes that would improve it, but the core gameplay loop is established and the parameters are all selectable so you can tailor the difficulty as you please. Evidently the "goal" of the game is blocked off, but aside from that it's a full game. No man's sky and starfield were honestly less finished on release.
If the devs are good, those early access players make the game better for the people who buy when it's fully released.
RimWorld, Subnautica, darkest dungeon, streets of rogue, project zomboid, oxygen not included, starsector, skull the hero slayer, dead cells, caves of qud quasimorph and universim are games i bought in early access that I do not regret in the slightest.
I'd say the biggest problem is these big companies who release "finished" games that are clearly not finished and the people who keep pre-ordering them
Add Baldur's Gate 3 and Hades to the list
And Factorio as well.
Valheim, Grounded, Satisfactory
I think the problem is that it's a gamble, and there's always potential to get burned.
Money up front for something you really have no idea how it is, is stupid.
The biggest hypocrisy are games in early access that release a DLC before v1
Fuckin' Ark.
There's nothing wrong with buying early access games. You as a buyer just need to be happy with the current state of the game at the time of purchase.
And the price should reflect the game's current state/value, not some hypothetical roadmap.
So more like Kerbal Space Program, less like Kerbal Space Program 2.
Exactly this. I tell my friends not to get their hopes up too high about Palworlds eventually being completed because the studio has a history of abandoning titles in early access. I'm not telling them not to buy it or that it's not worth purchasing, but to weigh if where it's currently at is worth the price they're charging.
The studio may use the funding they got from its spike in popularity to actually complete a title just as well as they might sell out to a bigger studio (I'd imagine The Pokemon Company would love to buy then bury it), or abandon it entirely. We don't know what the future holds and we do know the studio has a history, so keep that in mind when you're purchasing or when you're asking yourself if it was worth the buy.
I'd imagine The Pokemon Company would love to buy then bury it
sighs and looks at DRM-Free versions
Which one have they abandoned? Because Craftopia still gets updates, and last year they got the open world update, which is a massive change.
I see a lot of people shitting on Craftopia saying it's a BotW ripoff, while its fun and completely its own thing (ok, asset wise and sound wise eerily similar, but gameplay has nothing to do with BotW)
I am not sure about the pokemon company. Palworld is a completely different genre than pokemon and therefore not really a competitor.
I'm very anti-pre-order, but early access I'm okay with. It comes with the same decision process as buying anything else, is what I'm getting right now worth the money I'm paying? If yes, then buy it, if no then don't. I don't buy promises, I buy products.
Baldurs gate 3 is a good example of early access done right. I knew going in I was getting the first 4 levels and roughly 1/4 - 1/3 of the planned final game, but what was there already was worth the price I paid, even if they never finished or released it, I got my money's worth imo. I put like 200+ hours into it before it released, i can't be mad at that for 30 bucks.
Where does "buying it 10 years later so that it can run on whatever the modern equivalent of a teacup is" fit in?
Playing witcher 3 on steamdeck for the first time.
Relevant XKCD
This is exactly what I'm doing. Games still look great, they run great, and chances are there are a bunch of quality of life mod improvements.
Days gone released on gog not long ago, the first thing I got was the mod for silencers, what a bullshit idea to only use it for five shots and then it's gone.
And I forgot: I never buy a GaaS! They will shut down The Crew soon, a game I play on a regular basis and one of the most relaxing titles ever made. I don't care how great a game might be, you won't get any money out of me ever again dear companies.
I did witcher 3 like 3 years ago. What a great time I had. My previous PC was barely mid tier in 2012. When I built a new one in 2019 it was a piece of cake to run in an ultra wide monitor with cranked settings.
I upgraded my PC in Oktober with a RX 7600, enough for older games, silent and efficient. I really looked forward to enjoy Witcher 3 at highest settings. A few days later rumors about Witcher 3 Next Gen. How dare they! Now I can't push every single slider to max and enjoy 120fps!
In all seriousness: The update is great of course and I applaud CD Project Red for releasing it free. Besides the better graphics (Which even the 7600 can handle at Full HD without high RT settings) they also included tons of fixes and quality of live improvements the community made over the time. I can really recommend it.
I even bought it at full price years before I played it because I enjoyed Witcher 2 so much and was certain they will make a good game.
I've only just got a computer that can play games from 2005 onwards (no kidding my netbook could handle sims 2 at the most). I've also started playing Witcher 3 (got the complete collection for £8) and just bought a controller the other day. I don't care about fancy cutting edge graphics; good storyline and gaming experience is what matters.
Enjoying palworld quite a bit despite bugs, and the input (and money) will probably make the end product a better game. BG3 is another example of a game that was wildly successful due to EA.
I'll judge these on a case by case basis. But I think the issue is less EA titles and more titles that are released not as EA but obviously broken.
And even those are a mixed bag, like Cities Skylines 2 should be in EA, but as an informed gamer i still knew what i'm going to get on day 1 and despite all the downsides it's enjoyable and i wouldn't choose to play C:S 1 instead
My rule is that I only buy an Early Access game if I'd still be happy with it even if the devs never made another update (because sometimes they don't).
This is my thoughts exactly early access tells me there’s gonna be bugs probably and the game will likely be incomplete. If that doesn’t stop me from having fun I’ll buy the game
That's one of two scenarios where I'm happy to buy early access. Valheim and Palworld both fall in that category. The other category I'm happy to buy early access is for a project I am particularly interested in seeing succeed (and willing to give some feedback on to help). So far I think I've only done that with BG3 and that turned out pretty well for me.
Too late. Everybody buying Palworld.
Honestly, Palworld shows how bad it is. An early access being better than many complete releases is...
Wow
Just goes to show you that “early release” is mostly just a marketing gimmick these days
It's pretty fun, and it's $35. I've paid $90 for worse games.
Ikr. Really should have made this Jan 1st.
Nah, I'll continue spending my money on whatever I want, thanks.
Nah, I'll buy quality games whether or not they're EA. As with everything, you have to put in the effort to find the good shit mixed in with the bad. I've easily had at least a half dozen EA games that I've bought and played hundreds of hours, and more than a half dozen "completed" games that were absolute trash. Games like KSP, Minecraft, Factorio, Satisfactory, Oxygen Not Included, and DSP are some of my most played games, and all bought during early access/pre-release. And those are just the ones that come to the top of my head lol.
When you buy something early access you have to know what you're getting, and you have to understand this is potentially all you're getting. With any early access game I purchased, I made sure that I'm okay with the game I purchasing and that I don't feel like more justify my purchase. With that mentality I've never been disappointed in my choices for early access purchases, and the games I've purchased have all come a long way and some have even gotten to "completed"/1.0 level.
I respect people who wait for games to leave early access, but there are genuinely great indies in EA that are more polished than most AAA titles. Take each title on a case by case basis. Don't give shitty devs/pubs your hard earned money.
Dyson sphere is been in EA for years as well, and its probably going to be in my top 3 games for 2024 (which is when I started playing - at almost 200 hours), alongside Palworld, also in EA. Palworld can still be a bit buggy (maybe yesterday's update fixed some of that?) and DSP expects a much better CPU than I have (which is mostly a me problem, given my CPU is coming up on 10 years old but is a problem eventually for everyone at the extreme late-game I think)
Satisfactory pirated it in early access liked it bought it in early access
Palworlds mad fun though...so ....sorry!
I haven't played it most just read the news about it. But to me It maybe early access but it doesn't sound like a subpar game.
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This is more applicable to over-hyped, AAA titles. A lot of the games mentioned in comments are smaller, indie developed passion projects that get the TLC they deserve.
Have you heard the tragedy of Cube World the Incomplete? I thought not. It's not a story the Indie Devs would tell you. It's an Early Access legend.
You might be interested in this: https://veloren.net/
Imagine breaking so many hearts with one hang glider trailer that you spawn an open source mmo.
Castle story was the other big horror show.
Gosh I loved that game! I pirated it because I was a broke kid, it ran like a Diashow on the netbook so I did not buy it. Then when I got a gaming PC I pirated it again, and later wanted to buy it. I was disappointed lol. Still got it on my steam wishlist.
I've been happy with many, if not most, of the early access games I bought. But I tend to stick with cheaper indie games anyway. I don't think I've paid more than $30 dollars for a game in over a decade.
Ah yes, "completed" games like Cyberpunk, Fallout 76 or Battlefield 4.
What year is it that people don't realize the only difference between early access and AAA releases at this point is lies?
I'm buying 2 more copies of Palworld just because you're whining.
Buying early access makes you an investor. Which has the possibility of the product failing. It is a bet, treat it as such.
What % of profits do you get if the game is a success?
Sometimes they're cheaper than launch price? Or you may get exclusive cosmetics? Idk
(Not saying it's worth it)
You get 100% of a successful game and hopefully helped the small studio to be in a position where they can make more good games thanks to the success of the first one.
Your profit is not weighted in money but a more diverse landscape when it comes to games.
And if you like games and see what AAA does to the scene, you should see that als something to strife for. Or am I mistaken?
You're investing in the quality of the game, not money.
laughs in 🏴☠️ Palworld
Ironically, despite being version 0.1.3. it's in a better shape than some "full" releases. Looking at you, Starfield.
The dev team is still stretching their resources between THREE unfinished games (Never Grave, Craftopia, Palworld) and have a history of unfinished products and scams (cryptocurrency).
So piracy it is. I'm only giving them my money once they finish their games
Patient gamer gang
Unite
Yeah, after all that Baldur's Gate 3 early access thing came out terribly.
I've been playing beamNg for 4+ years and it's been in ea the entire time since 2015, possibly the best car game you can get for 20€.
Slay the spire I've also owned since early access, it's maybe the most beautiful single player card game to exist. Although it only spent 1-2 years in ea.
Don't be the first to buy ea games I guess but if the game is already fun why not.
I remember buying Subnautica when it was still in EA and I never regretted that either.
Still, it's kinda like playing the lottery in a way – you might get a killer game for a reasonable price, or you might end up with a pile of shit that never gets finished. Just depends on the devs. At least the odds of winning are vastly superior compared to the lottery.
If the company has a history of releasing solid, complete products or properly using Early Access for its intended purpose (BG3), or is punching above its weight and just doesn't have the money to reach the finish line (Palworld) I don't see it as intrinsically bad, as long as you as a consumer understand that there's a risk that the end result is dissapointing. On the other hand, there's Paradox, that releases supposedly complete games and advertises them as such despite clearly having the means to slow down and put them through QA before selling them in a mechanically broken state. They'll still become great games though, after 8 years of further development and 14 DLC.
Okay but Pocket Pair) has THREE unfinished early access games (Palworld, Never Grave, Craftopia)
Palworld and craftopia seem to be the same framework so it I'm guessing they are gonna use some of the dump truck full money they got from palworld to contine their development process.
If this were a finished Palworld, it's already more game than most AAA releases, and more stable at that. If anything, calling Palworld a beta at this point seems like they are trying to raise the bar for release quality in general.
Regarding pre-ordering games, I think Eric Cartman said it best
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Enshrouded too good
Ooh. It looks cool. Sell me on it.
Do you like Valhiem, the new Zelda games, RPGs, base building, crafting, exploring?
This game does a great job blending these elements together. Since it's in EA you can already see the huge potential the game can have with the map size and sets of gear and items. Also, since it's in EA it's only $25.
Well worth the price.
I buy what game I want, whether it is EA or not. Worked out great with BG3. Palworld is another one with tons of content for an EA title and I had a blad with the universim during all of EA and it is now released with even more content.
I've played early access games far better than full releases and vice versa. The divide between early access vs not early access is arbitrary and unnecessary in my opinion. Buy games that are worth the price for the fun they offer for you. The only blanket rule I would say is to avoid pre-ordering.
I have 10 times more full release fail buys than early access. While early access often costs half of a AAA title. So you better switch those images.
Preordering is a bigger issue than early access. At least with early access there is an existing game people can review.
I don't regret the $20 I spent on Dyson Sphere Program, spent more time enjoying that than I have playing most of my library of supposedly "finished" games.
They released The Dark Fog in December. It's great!
Techtonica is early access and looks like it's going to be amazing.
The real problem is old companies like EA and Bethesda releasing crap on Launch Day and expecting its customers to be its beta testers for the next couple of years while they slowly patch the game into a playable state. (Or not. Why should they care? They got your money.)
The only redeeming quality with Bethesda is they release mod tools. That's also how all their bugs end up being fixed.
It's a democratic economy! Why should capitalists get to make all the stupid decisions?
I wait until the complete game is on sale and has mods that are stable. Just got firewatch for $2 and got the VR mod off itch.io which has its own single mod manager. Such a awesome game so far, story wise and with the vr mod.
Don't preorder, and only buy early access if you're happy with the game as it is at the moment you buy it
Project zomboid fans 🫥
What do you mean? Suicide squad early access purchasers got their games automatically completed!
Spares them from actually having to play it.
yall spend money on GAMES?
No! I want my illusion of choice!
I don't go for early access games anymore since the Starbound fiasco.
Maybe instead we should push the revoke the law that forces you to buy early access games?
Some of the best games ever made are early access. Like Project Zomboid.
The worst buy I ever did, boring ass game
Why the fuck did you buy it then? Like haven't you looked it up before wasting money?
No. I like supporting great artist like Tynan Silvester early on.
It's an odd concept for sure. People pay extra money to be beta testers for a game company. That's an actual paid career, yet people are willing to pay to do it.
I mean, yeah, for some of us it's apart of the experience to see a game change and grow over time and be apart of it. It's nice when developers respond directly to you and even take your ideas into consideration. It's nice being apart of a community, too
I get this if we're talking AAA millions of dollars dumped into a game and it goes early access, but EA indie games have been a blast for me for years.
Most of the EA games I buy (not all, but a significant majority) are sold for less, sometimes a lot less, than their final sale price, and I get tangible input on the design decisions before 1.0. I'm a big fan. I get to provide funding and feedback to a game I'm excited to see, get it for a good discount, get to see it grow up, and then when it blows up and everyone loves the game I'm considered a source of arcane ancient knowledge about it. It's fun.
Mostly I enjoy being able to go on a game forum and say "this sucks, we should consider changing A to B" and then logging in next week to find B implemented.
Yep, it really comes down to knowing you're buying an unfinished project that has the potential to never change from its current state. Never buy a game based on the promises, buy it based on whether you'll enjoy it now. It also helps if the dev has a good track record of releases. Things like valheim and palworld im OK with buying because even if they never change, I still had many hours of fun with them for the price.
To be fair, early access feedback is very different from beta tester feedback.
Beta testers focus on tangible actionable feedback, like: "game crash in x situation" or "y character's arc could use restructuring". Whereas early access feedback is more like "these parts just aren't fun" or "man, i, j, k, l, & q would be so cool!", which isn't nearly as actionable, but arguably more useful to the end product. Though good luck bug hunting with "game bork pls fix".
At the same time, beta testing isn't fun, it's work. Trying every combination of buttons to find edge cases can be mind numbing, and playing the same thing 400 times in one day can drain any appreciation of the game as a whole. Early access players can actually play the game, and leave if it's not fun. The majority won't even leave feedback anyway.
Also, beta testers often need to sign NDAs and could loose their career by breaking them, while early access is straight up letting the cat out of the bag. Depending on how replayable or spoilerable the game is, that might be undesirable.
EA allows people to create games who normally wouldn't have the money to do it.
That's to say Early Access, not the other EA in the gaming industry of Electronic Arts.
I also love the convenience of bulk buying dlcs and games in steam sales. 80% off everything? Now the whole deal costs less than one DLC 4 years ago? Boy howdy.
It was painful waiting for them to fix the Baldur's Gate 3 xbox save bug before buying it, while everyone was abuzz. But I stand by my principles, the game must work!
Yup. I've made a rule for myself to buy only finished indie games. AAA games are way too long anyway. And paying $70 for an oversized hard drive hogging bugged out mess is just wrong. No beta, no early access, no pre-order. When in doubt replay Stardew Valley to soothe the soul.
I avoid AAA games because...well they're corporate crap, simply put. I don't like how they operate as a business, I don't like the aggressive monetization, I don't like how they treat their creative staff...so I buy from small studios and indies.
I do occasionally buy games in early access. I typically join the campaign fairly late, I don't kickstart three pieces of concept art and a "now hiring programmers," I want to see a pattern of updates along with regular communication that shows a pattern of being honest and transparent. I'll join in when the game is already in a playable and fun state.
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Yep everyone just needs to slow their roll. I don't even go for DLC, not part of the original game not buying it.