Please, for the love of God, VOTE!

saw someone say maybe another trump win is good because it will mobilize the left a little more
threw up in my mouth a bit through the tears
- It's a round about way of saying they want a civil war.
  
  A lot of those types of leftists fantasize about a glorious revolution, but many revolutions have happened and no utopias exist so…
  I think Contrapoints made the same argument in one of her videos.
  
  All those armchair warriors that have a couple guns and say they're ready for the revolution, but aren't even participating in any activism besides edgelording on forums.
  Sure you are, champ. Sure you are. Why don't you instacart yourself some hot pockets and a gallon of ice cream.
- It blows my mind that we're still discussing this after the German left took this approach with Hitler.
  There is no "after fascists". Fascists are the enemy that we unite against. Hitler wouldn't have come into power if the leftists and moderates cooperated and had a healthy relationship. Even if some factions of the left/moderates want to play off fascists for power, there's still plenty of people in the relevant group who dislike the fascists. Unite with them to take down the fascists and elements of their party who empower them.
  We'll get nowhere if we assume the entire group of leftists/moderates are fascist supporters. We need to ally.
- The trolls ive spoken to here are afraid of leftist solidarity. They claim they want change, but whine and cry the second you call for all roads for change to be taken. Mutual aid, direct action, and voting are praxis. We will have an impossible time trying to get any of those first 2 done under dumbass.
  As someone on the far end of the left spectrum, any and all leftward movement must be embraced at all opportunities. How am i to convince anyone to work together with me, if I shit on their methods? All must be embraced. Some will be more effective, some less, but thats how we make connections.
  Its about time this country learned what solidarity is.
  
  Very well spoken. Even if the progress is minor, it's helping some people, and that's important. Obamacare was not the ultimate, perfect healthcare fix, but it did give a whole lot of people affordable healthcare where they didn't previously. It was a cause worth supporting for that reason. And as someone who had to rely on it for a time, I greatly appreciate it.
  If we've made someone's life better or easier, we've succeeded. That to me is practical leftism. We help as many as we can as much as we can. Since we aren't in unilateral power, that means we have to compromise. And working with colleagues will be more successful than being combative. The lone socialist in the Virginia House was able to get a lot done that way.
  
  Specifically Voting is the starting shot from which all other actions flow in an election cycle
  Doing all the other parts is basically just aesthetic shopping if you won't do the part that changes material conditions at the macro level
  
  I like to point to one of the most successful Socialist parties that ever existing in the USA: The Socialist Party of Milwaukee. They got 3 mayors elected and effected actual change.
  Part of the Socialist Party's lasting success in Milwaukee can also be attributed to their pragmatism, Gousha says. Daniel Hoan made a point to exist within a capitalist free market system, they were fiscally conservative, and they worked with other parties to accomplish their goals.
  Their pragmatism drew criticism from other socialists around the country, who called Milwaukeeans "sewer socialists" for not being revolutionary enough, according to Gousha.
  "As Gene Zeidler said, 'The socialists of Milwaukee took that as a badge of honor. And they said, well you may think we need to be more revolutionary but you could not be elected dog catcher and we’re winning elections,' " Gousha notes.
  Article in question.

Majority of People: I want a pony.
Candidate 1: I'm going to kill all the ponies.
Candidate 2: I won't do that, and will try to make ponies more affordable (because price-fixing the cost of ponies is not within my constitutional powers)
Leftist: "But that's not good enough! I want a free pony. And a blowjob. I'm voting 3rd party 😤"
- Do keep in mind these aggressive purist Gatekeeping / no true Scot leftists are very often just right-wing astroturfers. It hits two birds with one stone: they make leftism obnoxious, they often muddy the waters of violence, and wedge-drive the Democratic coalition to get Trump elected.
  Either that or they're very young and naive.
  Don't fall for it. You'll see more of this the closer the election gets.
  
  Oh, I'm not fooled (for the most part, anyway). I'm just giving the benefit of doubt and calling them out using their own arguments and trying to not make any assumptions or accusations.
  
  Spot fucking on, but its that second group, the young and naive that make these points worth arguing and harping on about. Sometimes those of us whove been online our whole lives forget the indoctrinating power of the internet. Shit, thats what pushed me further and further left, and still does to this day.
  And ur last sentence.... oof... i know.... brace yourselves, and kick up the counterefforts.
  
  It's a few of the astroturfers leading a bunch of the young and naive.
  
  $5 say the "They should earn my vote" line is a favorite of right wing and Russian trolls a la 2018's #WalkAway movement.
  
  i don't believe you can prove anyone (not everyone, just one person) who doesn't think biden is good enough is either right wing or "young and naive"
- 3rd party: “I can make big promises willy nilly because there is zero chance I’ll win and therefore won’t be held accountable”
- The leftist in this comment also makes sure to plug their ears nice and good if u tell them that the first candidate is financed by foreign powers literally hostile to anything u hold dear, a situation beyond unprecedented.
  Voting is the least u can do politically, but it is still praxis, and absolutely necessary given the circumstances.
- free pony and blowjob
  Avasarala for president!
  
  The poster is just "go fuck yourself"
- Candidate 1: I will keep giving guns to the people killing ponies but I will feel bad about it and criticize them sometimes
  Candidate 2: I will give the guns and not feel bad.
  Leftist: hey can anyone just, you know, not help people kill ponies?
  Centrist: omg I can't believe you're asking for so much from your candidates. Your ideological purity is the real enemy here. I bet you don't even care about ponies
  
  It's called nuance and seeing the big picture, sweetie.
- Real strange way to make a point
- Candidate 2: I’m going to give guns and money to the person killing ponies but tell them they shouldn’t do it.
  Leftist: Either way ponies are going to be killed. Let’s try something different.
  Centrist: Noooo, you have to vote for the proxy pony killer who can’t use his position to do anything or else you’ll get a pony killer in power who’ll use his position to do everything.
  
  Leftist: Either way ponies are going to be killed. Let’s try something different.
  "Something different" here meaning "handing over the position to the worse of the two options".
  
  Acting like Candidate 1 won't do the same and worse
  
  You said it so perfectly and I never realized it. "If you elect our guy, he won't be able to do anything, but at least it's better than if you elect the other guy. If you elect the other guy, somehow he'll be able to do everything he wants. But vote for our impotent guy instead. It's safe!"
  Um what?
  
  You literally can't try something different, in this election. It's physically impossible. Leftists should be channeling this energy to the next election, and building a viable candidate that truly meets their needs.

Already had a tankie tell me they're voting 3rd party.
Putin thanks them while Ukrainians and Palestinians weep.
- Don't worry, tankies love Russia's Legitimate Security Interests in performing genocide in Ukraine.
  
  One literally hopped on a sock-puppet account immediately after I reported their other account for spam (several replies to each comment) and blocking his account and just continued with the same nonsense.
  
  https://startrek.website/pictrs/image/3a0374d0-97bc-441e-b4a9-ef027c46b6fe.jpeg
- "Anyone who disagrees with me is a tankie." The left loves their cringe labels as much as the extreme right. Tankies, fascists, nazis, demon rats, librules, alt right, control left, it's all the same nonsense. You morons deserve each other.
  
  I'll take strawman for 500, Alex.
  ... Or, you know, they just told me they were, ya genius.

This is going to happen every election for the foreseeable future. Trump is not a illness he's a symptom. Eventually a right winger is going to win because we're stuck voting for a party that often ignores their constituents for business interests. That's how we got Trump in the first place and the DNC learned nothing.
All the while we could vote third party like in most healthy democracies but we can't because neither of the major parties want a third party and voters are to cowardly to vote 3rd party because "they won't win anyway" even when they actually represent what they want in a on policy. See Nader and Bernie
Fact is neither Democrat or Republican is going to attempt to change s system that actively benefits them, especially in the higher positions of authority. The fact that voting 3rd party is considered throwing away your vote should be more embarrassing to Americans as a whole.
- It's not "considered" throwing your vote away. Under a FPTP voting system, it is throwing your vote away. Nobody who tells you that says it gleefully like we just love that we and you can't vote third party effectively. It's just the mathematical reality of our voting system and it has to be changed before voting third party becomes an option that is anything but symbolic and self-defeating.
  The DNC is not the ephemereal vague boogeyman the left tries to make it out to be. It's an organization focused on winning elections and accomplishing policies for the Democratic constituency. You are making the mistake of hating the player instead of the game.
  If third party votes are important to you, join a local political group focused on expanding another voting choice method like Ranked Choice or STAR voting. You're already on the easier half of the ideological spectrum to wage this fight from, since most sponsors of alternatives are from democratic groups.
  
  The players decide the game rules.
- He's both a symptom and an illness.
  I think people who are young enough to not remember the world before Obama don't realize this is so so so so so far from the norm that we don't have any clue what's going to happen.
  Biden would have been a decent GOP candidate in the 90s. It'd have sucked to see him elected but it would have been a few years of uncomfortable conservative stuff. Where people argue about how much power we want to give to corporations or whatever... But now it's so far past that...
- Tell me which democrats before Trump's term was "ignoring their constituents for business interests" - show your work, please. Because you sound like a bipartisan moron.
  If you can't understand how bad trump was and will be, you're fucking retarded. I agree that trump is a symptom but the disease is dumbasses that value social issues like abolishing trans rights and wanting to restore the ability to say the "hard R" without getting fired.
  Biden (or his cabinet, whatever) has done so much good for this country that it fills me with a white hot rage that there's still so much opposition to what is essentially the best presidency we've had in decades. You know what? I think you're part of the problem. I think you don't know the first thing when it comes to policies, legislation, bills, laws, economic incentives, budgets, etc. I think you think you're just "looking at both sides, man".
  Sorry if that's a bit harsh but you guys speak so confidently about issues you know nothing about. I'll try to make it easier: if you're a Democrat, vote Biden. If you're not a Republican, vote Biden. If you don't like Biden but hate Trump, then vote Biden. If you're unsure (then you shouldn't be allowed to have kids, honestly) vote Biden and thank me later. If you're a Trump supporter I'll pray for you but vote Trump. If you're a Republican and don't like Trump, I'm so sorry.
  
  I get the feeling that a lot of these people think that somehow withholding their vote to punish Biden is some kind of ultimate punishment and it allows them to feel superior without having to do anything else to actually contribute.
  
  I think genocide is bad and that Build Back Better was always going to be killed by the Democratic Party from the very start
  He is a C+ president at absolute best.
  Which makes him the best president since LBJ
  Which means we need to dispose of our current political and civic order and replace it with a better model.
  Even something like Finland would be a drastic improve
- The foreseeable future looks like the rightwingers are outnumbered. Keep democracy alive, and you will live to see very different candidates running than the dinosaurs your used to. Theres more than a couple reasons why the 2 front runners are do old.

It's not that they are ok with Trump. They are just unhappy with both candidates. With that being said I do plan on voting for the Biden because while I don't agree with him on everything I know that he won't turn the country into a fascist dictatorship like Trump. The fact that this asshole is still legally allowed to run is insane.
Edit: I change my mind. After seeing Bidens debate performance it is pretty obvious that he is going to lose. Unless if the Democrats replace Biden with a candidate who can actually speak. I will be voting for Jill Stein instead.
Edit 2: Turns out Biden dropped out. I will now vote for whoever the democratic nominee is but after this election I will be voting 3rd party from now on.
- Because there is still a reasonable veneer of democracy. The "both sides-ing" part of the electorate that doesnt see what is happening as a slow conversion to authoritarianism or fascism still know how to count and how elections are supposed to work. The system is getting slowly rigged from the inside, and it is extremely enabled by having questionable election results and need for recounts and exploitable legal actions.
  You can see by watching coverage of Trump's second impeachment that there are principled old guard Republicans with lines they won't cross. There's also huge portion of the non-maga "center and center right" electorate thinks that this is all just some overblown BS and dont love Trump, but think it's all the same either way. A close election? Sure recount, sue, whatever, and those people will go along. Have a blowout confirmed by media and election polling and those people wake up and give a shit. All is not lost for democracy, but basically only half the electorate is even engaged in the discussion. In a close race a steal looks legit, in a landslide race that is overturned all the "nothing burger" crowd gets proof that there is blood in the water.
  The US isn't Russia yet, but the insides are changing because fuckwits "protest" by sitting on their couches, not voting or engaging, and whining about how it doesnt matter. IT. MATTERS. This whole conversation is like the "first/then they came for the XXX and I said nothing" situation, but it starts at the ballot box.
  
  Because the alternatives are to roll over and take it or revolt with violence and we should strive for peaceful resolution before violent revolution.

- If Trump wins he’ll continue to support genocide even harder in Gaza since he’s a Christian death cultist
  Yeah, that's the crazy part. I get the voting undecided or whatever your state's equivalent is in order to send a message to Biden that he needs to change his policies (I'll be doing this as well when it's my state's turn). However, Trump and the right are very openly pro Israel and if anything support Israel even more.
  
  Not to mention that if Trump is back in power he'll also be supporting the genocide in Ukraine.
- It's not at all hyperbole. Survivors of the holocaust during Trump's first term specifically brought up how eerie and terrifying was the similarity with what they lived through during the early years, in the long run-up to the full Nazi takeover.
- If both parties are the same on Israel, then look for other differences to vote for.

Please, for the love of god, be good enough to vote for.
- Sorry best we can do is give you someone bad enough to vote against.
- "People get the government they deserve"
- Hope they line you sanctimonious bastards up against the wall before me, so at least there's some silver lining to the coming fascist dystopia.
  
  So, just to confirm:
  It's more reasonable and realistic to expect hundreds of millions of people to abandon their moral principles, than it is to expect one man to adopt some.
  Objecting to the bombing of children is sanctimonious bastardry.
  Is that about it?
  If so, what's left to save?

Please vote. I don't live in the US but this election is likely to impact the safety of my family.

Leftists who won't vote are saying:
"Making a political statement is worth not only having Trump for president for the next four years, but living under a Trump for the rest of my life or fighting another world war to escape it."
"I'm so mad at the current president for doing genocide that I'm going to stand down and tacitly support his other opponent to do genocide instead."
- Nah this is backwards, Democrat voters need to get behind the left. If the left aligns with Democrats we continue to ratchet to the right. If everyone did what the left wants there is a way out. Either get behind the left or support the right either directly or indirectly, that's the choice right now.
  Democrats try to shame the left into supporting them, blame them for the failure, then call you a fascist because you didn't vote for one. Fuck that, Democrats don't have the high horse to say that from anymore except to each other. Democrats who support the left can do it by voting that way, otherwise they're enabling the current system just as much as Trump supporters. The conditions that give us Trump don't go away without a socialist project.
  
  Democrat voters need to get behind the left
  Any strategy that requires millions of dumb people to make wise decisions is simply not going to happen.
  I see things this way
  There is a small number of good people driven to make the world a better place, e.g. me and you and many of us on Lemmy
  There is a tiny number of really bad people (e.g. psychopaths), these are your right wing leaders (gov't, church, etc) and very rich people
  There is a small number of people willing to kill others for a paycheck because they were ordered to do so (military, police, intelligence) or are sadists
  A larger number of people that are mostly goodish but not wise and not motivated to improve anything for others -- they just do their thing
  About 35% dumb people that would not care one whit about politics -- This is the main group where the future will be made
  These numbers are pulled from my ass but get my point across.
  The good people are already trying, but so many are convinced by propaganda from foreign dictators (somehow they clearly see American propaganda and are totally blind to that coming from dictators that claim to be communists) that the way to make things better is to kill a bunch of people and force everyone else to labor under the dictators instruction. We've seen the damage this can do before to society and to the environment.
  The bad people are not going to turn good, they are the enemy.
  The enforcement class will be an enemy as long as they are paid, remove the money and we just need to watch out for unorganized assholes and sadists
  The goodish people can only be prodded to vote better, that is of limited utility in making the world better, but it can hold off fascism for a time (I want to be clear, our current situation is bad, fascism is much worse, much much worse).
  It's the dumb people -- the normal situation is they are not very powerful or organized. What's changed in recent years is that this group has been activated -- they've been turned into an idiot army serving the tiny number of very bad people. ( I think Steve Bannon and Roger Stone were key here)
  This means, they way to get out of our quagmire is to deactivate the idiot army, and they use leftist tactics to push things in the right direction outside of electoral politics.
- Meanwhile back in reality Trump was the first President in decades to not start a new war. The left keeps promoting the idea that Trump will be so much worse than Biden because he'll do the things Biden is already doing. Trump was a great President and he should win again. The left made these same claims the first time with Trump and none of it materialized except in the deranged fevered nightmares of the left. I can still remember the media saying Trump can't be trusted with the nuclear codes and he was going to start WW3 with Russia. The left projects their own desires onto their opponents then carries them out under the cover of the Jewish media.
  
  Trump assassinated an Iranian general in a third country. Fuck off with this "didn't start a war" shit. The only reason there wasn't a war is they didn't push back.
  His dipshit son in law tried to weaponize COVID against blue states because he was too dumb to realize that infectious diseases don't care about political affiliation.
  Then he had his supporters try to overthrow a free and fair election.
  Trump should die in prison. The sooner the better.
  
  The mysteries of your brain would make a fascinating documentary.

Whether you blame Biden and the DNC, or the “left” voters for not voting hard enough; if Trump wins, it won’t matter. Get over yourself and try to build allies instead of destroying support.
Majority in U.S. Now Disapprove of Israeli Action in Gaza
- Why would this surprise you? Democrats are center right politically, they're just as happy to flirt with authoritarianism when it suits them.
  
  Anarchists hate tankies. Tankies hate liberals. Liberals hate anarchists. Meanwhile, Trump, fascism, and Project 2025 is on the horizon. Reach across the divide. When the fascists come for you, are you really gonna ask if the people willing to fight with you are Leninists, Trotskyist, or social Democrats?
  We can criticize ideals, but at the end of the day, we’re all fighting fascism.
  
  It's not Kool aid, it's an understanding of reality. There's no chance of running a third party or another democrat in this month of this year in this election .
  Your only choice is to either vote Biden, and try to convince him to change policy, or do any other action and be fine with trump, who will never be convinced of anything, will happily build an actual Christian nation-state and is likely compromised by foreign actors .
  After the election, hoping Biden wins, is the time for leftists to wake up and build a candidate. If trump wins they may never get the chance due to project 2025.
  It's like this:
  The floor is covered in broken glass. You must cross it to get out.
  You are wearing very uncomfortable high heel shoes.
  You can either remove the uncomfortable shoes and walk in the broken glass, taking massive damage. Your feet will never be the same.
  Or you can wear the uncomfortable shoes, safely cross the room, and then stop once you are out, and either remove the shoes and find new ones.
- Another non-voting/third party stan cosplaying as a leftist.
  If im to take ur comic in good faith, ill make like the Spanish anarchists and still participate in the god awful system that we're all apart of either way to reduce the harm it does to me or my comrades. Surely you will recognize that as praxis.
  
  What does hate achieve?
  Men build too many walls and not enough bridges.
  Joseph Fort Newton

I'm childish enough that I'm irritated at my comment here being removed. Here's the comment, which also applies to this meme:
You know that weak support for Hindenburg's party was what let Hitler come to power, right?
Not that I agree that Biden is a lesser evil, but even within those parameters, there's an absolutely glaring flaw in bringing up Nazi Germany while making the case that voting for the lesser evil is a bad idea
And when he asked for clarification:
My point is that the holocaust that gave rise to Niemöller's quote in the first place happened because of weakened resistance from the SPD (the establishment left), which wasn't getting support from the far-left of its day because it wasn't left enough. When as a result the fascist party gained control, it put all the far-left people in camps, outlawed the SPD, and began killing people by the millions. Which in retrospect made the complaint that the establishment left wasn't left enough to support, even against literal Hitler, seem short sighted.
Mod banned me. 🙂
- I got banned from World News (apparently the .ml instance) for calling out russian talking points being used for this end.
  Its not just calls for not voting, either. The other they love to stan is voting third party and pretending the spoiler effect doesnt exist.
  
  A lot of the lemmy.ml subs are very explicitly one-viewpoint subs; the mods will take out comments which advance arguments they don't like. It is a reason I don't bother with them much.
  I mean, it makes sense; the administrators argue for explicitly totalitarian states like Russia or China, so it makes sense they'd use the same sort of approach to discourse under their own purview. I am curious what their viewpoint would be if their local government showed up at their door and started treating them like Russia or China treat their social media; I think there's a certain pick-me viewpoint like "obviously I would be one of the good and loyal ones and they'd leave me alone," but I don't think that is how it would work out.
- Lmao. LinkOpensChest.wav is constantly going on about how mods are persecuting him. How ironic.
  
  The rule that I was banned under was:
  No defending oppressive systems such as capitalism or the US "democracy."
  I can't even tell whether to complain that it's weird to tell me I can't defend democracy, or that it's weird to call "it's bad to let the Nazis come to power" a pro-system-of-oppression viewpoint.
  (I mean, I get it. I think it's safe to say that the real reason for the ban is neither of those things. I'm gonna let it go and move on with my day.)
- Support for the SPD waned because they were pushing to the right to court right wing voters. Sort of like how the sitting US president has been on TV using right wing terminology and how the sitting Democratic mayor in NYC brought back stop and frisk.

But both sides
- Yes my butt is symmetrical with buttcheeks on both aides.
  #ButtBothSides

There are those that see things drifting away from their priorities and their wants and needs. They've tried working within the system, but the system always makes things worse. Of course people like that will be tempted to "burn it all down" and start anew, or at least throw a wrench in the cogs and stop progress.
We should focus on convincing them that 'progress' is better for them - and if it isn't, maybe we shouldn't support it as well. Unless it is an issue of justice, then of course not letting people 'get away with it' is worse for those people.
- How about solidarity? Thats my hope.
  I want a very different society than the one ive got. Status Quo Joe sucks dick, but we still have a democracy in which all political avenues are open. Our ends might be different, but the means need not be. We must all work together to make this hellscape liveable.

Did the first thread not work out the way ya wanted it to go?
https://lemmy.world/post/13670700
Reposting what I commented there:
Switching away from first past the post voting allows people to vote for who represents them best while still counting their vote against those they dont want to win. Just search for videos on FPTP voting if you want an explanation on how and why the spoilereffect exists that makes third parties not viable.
Electoral reform is possible in each individual state (for now), we dont need federal reform! Maine and Alaska have already passed electoral reform.
So what’s the hold up with the rest of the states? Consider starring a campaign to change how we vote in your own state! Force our representatives to compete with fresh outside ideas. We deserve the best representation, not excuses.
Nothings changed. This is still (IMO) the way forward. Who could possibly say no to more democracy?

Ah yes. Its the leftists fault that Biden is running his campaign and his presidency in such a way as to cause people to not want to vote for him.
- What do you believe in? What would you vote for? Is it to federally place abortion bans, or to place laws that will restrict freedoms for LGBTQ? To have a president who will arrest and remove all opposition, stack court judges and Congress with people who will only approve what they want whether the majority of the population wants that or not stripping all vestige of it being a Republic, democracy or anything salvageable?
  Either you don't want those things and vote for someone who has a chance at beating Trump, or you support those things and are voting for them. Not voting IS a vote.
  
  Your acting like it's my vote that's on the line as if I'm the one you have to convince. Bro, criticizing Joe Biden doesn't mean I'm not going to vote for him; in fact, criticism and forcing him to respond to the fact that no one in his party likes his Gaza policies is the only thing keeping him viable.
  Stop being a fucking cheerleader. You are making him less likely to win with your brow beating approach to rhetoric. The fact is the Democrats simply fucking suck at governing and have frankly don't jack shit for their voters since before Obama. You have to address that in your rhetoric as to why one should support Biden. If you can't convince people to get off the couch, you lose. And your dip shit approach about the other side isn't working. It needs to be about why Biden is better or you've failed, so fucking figure it the fuck out. His polling is in the tank. The only thing we can really do is ramp up the criticism and force Joe Biden to be a better candidate, because if left to his own devices, he's already lost.

It really does feel awful. Either vote for an old geezer who keeps sending weapons to a terrorist state committing a genocide, or an orange old geezer who will do all that but will also be an authoritarian dictator. Like what the fuck is even going on anymore. Something has to give.

Trump respect your right to NOT VOTE against him. 👍

How many times does this meme have to get posted until people realize it's not changing any votes lol

If Biden loses, that's his and the DNC's loss. It's up to them to field a candidate that people want to vote for. It's not up to the voters to go along with whatever the DNC feels like they want. I will be voting Biden because it's too important. If he loses, I will blame him for running, not the voters. The polling was clear, undeclared Democrat polled much higher than Biden, but for some reason he has main character complex and thought he was the only one that could beat Trump when in reality he might be the only person that can lose to Trump.
- If Biden loses, that’s his and the DNC’s loss.
  Oh, and also the loss of all of the rest of us who will suffer under another Trump administration.
  But fuck the poor, minorities, LGBT folk. We have to show the DNC how principled we are by making sure a fascist is elected!
  It’s not up to the voters to go along with whatever the DNC feels like they want.
  It's up to the voters to make an informed fucking choice. That's the point of citizenship. Voting isn't a fucking popularity contest, it's a civic duty.
  
  Bullshit. The OP literally said they’ll vote for Biden because their principles demand it. They’re saying that if Biden fails it is because he couldn’t bring the votes of others. Your arguments are straw man horse shit.
  
  Lmao Bidens administration has expanded trumps border cages, continued “building the wall”, contributed billions of dollars in planes, bombs and guns to Israel that he knew explicitly were being used to bomb children(and states that they don’t believe that they are going too far), defunded UNRWA, tried to pass a “ceasefire” that would permanently defund all Palestinian organizations if those organizations supported ICC proceedings against Israel, demonized undocumented workers on live tv, made record expansions to police budgets, took away rail workers right to strike permanently, done nothing to ensure LGBT or minority rights, or women’s rights for that matter, left DeJoy in after he purposefully gutted the USPS, expanded the trade war and maintained trump era blockades on socialist countries (including restricting humanitarian aid from going to Cuba and refusing to remove them from the state sponsors of terror list…) the list literally goes on as long as I feel like typing and then some.,
  He’s done some good, too. expanding the powers of the NLRB was a good step, capping insulin prices for Medicare recipients, allowed negotiations on drug prices for Medicare, funded the biggest climate package in US history (less than 10% of what China puts towards climate mitigation each year of course), put considerable money towards public transit and rail expansion, this list will go on for a while too if I wanted to keep typing, but to say that hes done much for minorities, the poor, or LGBT persons is just ridiculous.
  He is, as he said during his previous campaign, trying to continue the status quo. He’s not trying to massively shake things up nor to make them better. He thinks things are working pretty well as it is. He keeps touting this economy as if most workers aren’t still struggling to pay their bills, as if most americans still don’t have more than $500 in the bank, as if education isn’t collapsing under the austerity measures previous administrations have instituted.
  Our choice is maintenance of the status quo or further descent into fascism. And yes, this country in many ways is a fascist nation.
  Blaming people for having consciences is not doing anything to convince anyone to vote for him, it just further alienates those most vulnerable among the citizenry who see that their lives have in no way meaningfully improved over the last 4 years.
  
  It’s up to the voters to make an informed fucking choice. That’s the point of citizenship. Voting isn’t a fucking popularity contest, it’s a civic duty.
  Exactly. So don't put the blame on the voters if the DNC can't put up a candidate the voters actually want to vote for. It's the voters job to pick who they want to vote for, it's not the voters job to vote for whomever the DNC tells them to vote for. You have the burden of responsibility backward.
  
  I’ll be doing my civic duty by not voting. Voting is supposed to be about picking the candidate I want. Well, I don’t want either of these two candidates, and I won’t stand for the DNC rubbing its greedy little fingers together in the background, making deals and concessions with whomever they have to in order to push their candidate of choice.
  Biden has done some good things. Honestly more than I expected. This does not now, nor has it ever, and nor will it ever give the DNC carte blanche to manipulate the primaries from the shadows to choose their preferred candidate to represent the party in a wide-open field of two people once every four years.
  You want someone to blame for the fact that you’re all sweating bullets about how this election turns out? Look to the DNC when you want to point fingers, not the people who they’re trying to sucker into voting for the damage control option every four years.
- it sounds like we’re in exact alignment with each other on this topic and i’m wondering what your response is to the inevitable finger pointing at leftist from liberals after the election.
  That's what I've been talking about in this thread. It's up to the party to look inward and realize why they failed and field a better candidate. If they want to point to the finger else where they're just going to pick more losing candidates.
  i’d like to hear your thoughts on the group think talking point that a protest vote against biden is a vote for trump.
  It's a cop out. You vote for things. If you vote for say a third party then it's exactly that, you voted for a third party you didn't vote for Trump. It's up to the party to win your votes.

Who can we vote for that's not trump or Biden?
- The time for voting for was the primaries. The general is when you vote against.
- I think the message is "don't you at least want a reach around while you're getting f*cked in the ass." -Dems
  And for me. Yes. Yes. I do.
- Party for socialism and liberation!

- Try to withhold ur laughter amigo, the astroturfing will only increase when we get to november. The only way the gop wins this election with their shrunken and rapidly dying base is by keeping turnout low. Its easier to achieve when foreign governments are keen on u achieving power as well.
  Solidarity to all leftist ways forward. We get nowhere by standing against each other. We must vote, and when we block roads to stage protests or when we strike we must stand with the protestors/strikers.
  Im glad the BS i so easy for so many to see thru. That really gives me hope.

Replace "Leftists who won't vote" with "Democrats who purposely lie about leftists by claiming anyone who isn't voting for Biden isn't voting at all" and you'd have an accurate meme.
Dems claim to be antifascist but will take Trump 2: Electric Boogaloo LONNNGGGGG before they ever consider making concessions to anybody left of mid right Genocide Joe.

I don't understand how you think not stopping a genocide is the same as aiding or committing a genocide.
If you really think those two things are the same dude, you got to look hard in the mirror.

Do people not get that Biden is eradicating the Democratic party's leftist and progressive organization and overall electoral future with his policies?
Local and state elected democrats are facing backlash from a) a genocide and b) massive Israeli lobby primarying every single elected official who isn't cheering on said genocide.
Every single progressive and leftist politician in office is facing a choice: be run out of office or flip on your constituents like Fetterman. Very few are taking the most suicidal political position in America: not supporting Israeli.
Freak out on people criticisizing Biden but those who politically organize should generally see how ignorant these arguments are that ignore the ramifications of policy beyond presidential elections.
- No I don't get that and doesn't even seem to be a talking point at the moment for any of the half dozen grassroots progressives I follow and donate to
  
  Hey, if they can dodge the issue then great.

Liberals: "We don't need your votes anyway." Also "Liberals please vote, don't protest and don't criticize Joe Biden or you're helping Trump"
- Liberals: “We don’t need your votes anyway.”
  Find an example of any liberal saying this. Because to me at least, it seems like Democrats and the left are trying to get every vote they can because everyone expects this to be a close election which Trump is arguably winning right now.
- I'll criticize the geratarian, but I'll vote for him still. Better a genocide supporter than a fascist US. 4 years from now at least I'll have another option.
  
  " Better a genocide supporter than a fascist US." These are interchangeable.

Oh wow, Biden didn't actively help the genociders one time!!!! Wow! That's certainly means that he has an actively been helping them this entire time. Dude grow up.

We are sadly mistaken if we feel that the election of Albert Boutwell as mayor will bring the millennium to Birmingham. While Mr. Boutwell is a much more gentle person than Mr. Connor, they are both segregationists, dedicated to maintenance of the status quo. I have hope that Mr. Boutwell will be reasonable enough to see the futility of massive resistance to desegregation. But he will not see this without pressure from devotees of civil rights. My friends, I must say to you that we have not made a single gain in civil rights without determined legal and nonviolent pressure. Lamentably, it is an historical fact that privileged groups seldom give up their privileges voluntarily. Individuals may see the moral light and voluntarily give up their unjust posture; but, as Reinhold Niebuhr has reminded us, groups tend to be more immoral than individuals.
I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.”
- If MLK was alive today, liberals would hate him as much as they did in the '60s

Let me give you a word of the philosophy of reform. The whole history of the progress of human liberty shows that all concessions yet made to her august claims have been born of earnest struggle. The conflict has been exciting, agitating, all-absorbing, and for the time being, putting all other tumults to silence. It must do this or it does nothing. If there is no struggle there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom and yet deprecate agitation are men who want crops without plowing up the ground; they want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters.
This struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, and it may be both moral and physical, but it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both.

Fuck the fascists and the libs
- Why not just call us 'social fascists'? It's more classic.

This is like watching a bunch of people with Stockholm Syndrom trying to convince each other than one of the people keeping them imprisioned is a good guy and it's the other that's a bad guy.
There is no solution to the problems of the US via the traditional political parties, only via civil society movements and even those given the almost-dictatorship-level of civil society surveillance in the US, are under surveillance and are often subverted.
- And everyone who votes for Biden agrees with you. We all also understand that now is not the fucking time
  
  It never is the "fucking time"!
  This is why every election cycle as the Republicans get ever more repugnant, the Democrats follow them since all they need to be is a tiny bit less bad - or at least that's what they believe and all the Stockholm Syndrom victims preaching "we have no other choice" keep on confirming their belief every 4 years.
  That's how you ended up with a choice between two genocide supporters - because it has never been the "fucking time" for the last 3 decades so the Democracts felt confident to not give a rats arse about their electorate, only big donors and those who give gold-plated non-executive board memberships and million-dollar fees in the speech circuit to "friendly" politicians.
  
  There is never a fucking time.
- Fine, let's run with this analogy:
  This is like watching a bunch of people with Stockholm Syndrom trying to convince each other than one of the people keeping them imprisioned is a good guy and it’s the other that’s a bad guy.
  We're all in prison, both dudes will keep us there. One dude wants to murder your gay cell mate and give smaller cells to Hispanic prisoners. Voting, not voting, neither will win you your freedom. Your vote might make your friend's life easier.
  There is no solution to the problems of the US via the traditional political parties, only via civil society movements and even those given the almost-dictatorship-level of civil society surveillance in the US, are under surveillance and are often subverted.
  Which political party is restricting the speech of LGBTQ+ people right now? Which party wants to put them all on a list? Which party is visibly anti-labor instead of just pretending not to be?
  If you want change, fight for it. If Trump wins you activate hard mode.
  
  If Trump wins you activate hard mode.
  Good, thats when democrats come back from brunch and start paying attention to what the WH is doing.

You know what would be better than trying to convince people to vote for the lesser of two evils? Fucking striking and rioting until you don't have to.
Fuck this election, don't pay taxes until you have a democracy worth paying for.

Sure I'm going to go to the third party. I recommend you all do the same unless you're in a swing state. Dr. West and Claudia de La Cruz are actual good candidates.
- Curious are you in agreement with West that NATO and the west are to blame for Russia's Invasion of Ukraine? He opposes funding for Ukraine and wants to end the conflict giving Putin parts of the sovereign nation of Ukraine.
  
  he called the invasion illegal.
  
  No
  
  Curious if you are in agreement with Biden's support for genocide?
  
  Spoiler, they alllll do.
- Someone downvoted, but this is the right answer. Maybe the phrasing should have been reversed. I'll do that here.
  I live in California. My vote doesn't matter in that we know California will go blue. Therefore, I can vote my conscience and not vote for Biden because the threat of Trump is neutralized. If people voting for third parties in safe blue stats start trending, Dems will be forced to try to appeal to said voters (the possibility of a third party getting covered in a meaningful way is unlikely at present).
  I used to live in Kansas. Kansas was always a red state. It seems like it's become pretty close there now. I would not vote my conscience in Kansas for this election. It's possible that it could be a swing state. The threat of Trump is too great to take the risk.

But haven't you heard? Not voting is an opportunity for lefty radicalization!
- I hadn’t seen that video, but I agree with it. Guess I’m radicalized now.

Go tell Biden to stop supporting Genocide instead of trying to apologize for it.
Like I said months ago, he stops the Genocide or he will lose.
- Imagine being so insanely Nazi brainwashed you keep voting for Genocide instead of just switching to third party.
  Watch out everyone the wise old man that never did anything to change the world is here to tell everyone how to do it. Stockholm Syndrome is one hell of a drug.
- "Apologize"
  Funny how u expect nothing of trump whos playbook is right out of putins bible the foundations of geopolitics. But yeah, sure, totally a good faith actor here. The old generation is on its way out. Maybe lets not lose our democracy along the way.
  
  Biden literally complicit in Genocide
  But Trump!
  Even Republicans weren't this insanely pathetic when they kept crying about Hillary's emails. If you need to vote for Genocide you have no Democracy left to lose.

votes 3rd party because why would I vote for a genocide funder or an insurrectionist

EDIT: U.S signs off more bombs, warplanes for Israel
Yeah, definitely a candidate worth voting for amirite.
- Genocide funder the only item you can think of? Think that will magically go away or be better under drumpf? Think of all the money that will flood into Russia
  
  No, I pointed out both as being a terrible option.
  Granted Biden's domestic policy is far better than Trump's on account of it not being pure evil.
  But it's also just the same copy paste lobbyist policy from Obama, which was false promises and half implemented solutions.
  I will gladly vote for him if he stops actively funding a genocide which is a ridiculously low bar to pass.
  Even then, he won't, and will inevitably lose in November, and then cry about it instead of listening to his constituency because that's literally the reason I voted for him in the first place.
  
  no one is saying they think it souad be better with trump, they are saying it wont be better with biden either
- Ok, it's because insurrection at home will just lead to more genocide abroad. We can change the system once we've stabilized the system.
  
  Yeah I'm sure the coporate shill genocide funder will stabilize the system.

*Edit: go ahead and downvote Malcom X, you cowards.
Twenty-two million black victims of Americanism are waking up and they are gaining a new political consciousness, becoming politically mature. And as they become… Develop this political maturity, they’re able to see the recent trends in these political elections. They see that the whites are so evenly divided that every time they vote, the race is so close they have to go back and count the votes all over again. Which means that any block, any minority that has a block of votes that stick together is in a strategic position. Either way you go, that’s who gets it. You’re in a position to determine who’ll go to the White House and who’ll stay in the doghouse.
You’re the one who has that power. You can keep Johnson in Washington D.C., or you can send him back to his Texas cotton patch. You’re the one who sent Kennedy to Washington. You’re the one who put the present Democratic administration in Washington, D.C. The whites were evenly divided. It was the fact that you threw 80 percent of your votes behind the Democrats that put the Democrats in the White House.
When you see this, you can see that the Negro vote is the key factor. And despite the fact that you are in a position to be the determining factor, what do you get out of it? The Democrats have been in Washington, D.C. only because of the Negro vote. They’ve been down there four years. And they’re… All other legislation they wanted to bring up they’ve brought it up, and gotten it out of the way, and now they bring up you. And now they bring up you! You put them first and they put you last. Because you’re a chump! A political chump.
In Washington, D.C., in the House of Representatives there are 257 who are Democrats. Only 177 are Republican. In the Senate there are 67 Democrats. Only 33 are Republicans. The party that you backed controls two-thirds of the House of Representatives and the Senate and still they can’t keep their promise to you. Because you’re a chump.
Any time you throw your weight behind a political party that controls two-thirds of the government, and that party can’t keep the promise that it made to you during election-time, and you’re dumb enough to walk around continuing to identify yourself with that party, you’re not only a chump but you’re a traitor to your race.
These Northern Democrats are in cahoots with the southern Democrats. They’re playing a giant con game, a political con game. You know how it goes. One of them comes to you and make believe he’s for you. And he’s in cahoots with the other one that’s not for you. Why? Because neither one of them is for you. But they got to make you go with one of them or the other.
This is why I say it’s the ballot or the bullet. It’s liberty or it’s death. It’s freedom for everybody or freedom for nobody. America today finds herself in a unique situation. Historically, revolutions are bloody, oh yes they are. They have never had a bloodless revolution. Or a non-violent revolution. That don’t happen even in Hollywood. You don’t have a revolution in which you love your enemy. And you don’t have a revolution in which you are begging the system of exploitation to integrate you into it. Revolutions overturn systems. Revolutions destroy systems.
A revolution is bloody, but America is in a unique position. She’s the only country in history, in the position actually to become involved in a bloodless revolution. The Russian Revolution was bloody, Chinese Revolution was bloody, French Revolution was bloody, Cuban Revolution was bloody. And there was nothing more bloody than the American Revolution. But today, this country can become involved in a revolution that won’t take bloodshed. All she’s got to do is give the black man in this country everything that’s due him, everything.
I hope that the white man can see this. Because if you don’t see it you’re finished. If you don’t see it you’re going to become involved in some action in which you don’t have a chance. We don’t care anything about your atomic bomb; it’s useless, because other countries have atomic bombs. When two or three different countries have atomic bombs, nobody can use them. So it means that the white man today is without a weapon. If you want some action you’ve got to come on down to Earth, and there’s more black people on Earth than there are white people.
So it’s the ballot or the bullet. Today, our people can see that we’re faced with a government conspiracy. This government has failed us. The senators who are filibustering concerning your and my rights, that’s the government. Don’t say it’s southern senators, this is the government. This is a government filibuster. It’s not a segregationist filibuster, it’s a government filibuster. Any kind of activity that takes place on the floor of the Congress or the Senate, that’s the government. Any kind of dilly-dallying, that’s the government. Any kind of pussy-footing, that’s the government. Any kind of act that’s designed to delay or deprive you and me, right now, of getting full rights, that’s the government that’s responsible. And anytime you find the government involved in a conspiracy to violate the citizenship or the civil rights of a people in 1964, then you are wasting your time going to that government expecting redress. Instead you have to take that government to the world court and accuse it of genocide and all of the other crimes that it is guilty of today.
- [Twenty-two million black victims of Americanism are waking up and they are gaining a new political consciousness, becoming politically mature. And as they become… Develop this political maturity, they’re able to see the recent trends in these political elections. They see that the whites are so evenly divided that every time they vote, the race is so close they have to go back and count the votes all over again. Which means that any block, any minority that has a block of votes that stick together is in a strategic position.
  So we agree, then. We (in this case far leftists) are a critical voting block, and as mozz pointed out above, it is imperative that we make use of that fact to keep the fascist out of office.
  
  I realize it was a lot to read, but if you keep going it gets much better:
  Any time you throw your weight behind a political party that controls two-thirds of the government, and that party can’t keep the promise that it made to you during election-time, and you’re dumb enough to walk around continuing to identify yourself with that party, you’re not only a chump but you’re a traitor to your race.
  These Northern Democrats are in cahoots with the southern Democrats. They’re playing a giant con game, a political con game. You know how it goes. One of them comes to you and make believe he’s for you. And he’s in cahoots with the other one that’s not for you. Why? Because neither one of them is for you. But they got to make you go with one of them or the other.
  This is why I say it’s the ballot or the bullet. It’s liberty or it’s death. It’s freedom for everybody or freedom for nobody.
- In response to your edit: I'm just downvoting the massive wall of blue text and moving on. It's an eyesore and I'm not going to bother staring at it. I think this would be more effective with a link or links at the end, following plain text.

If you pan the image to the side, you'll find democrats in the corner masturbating over their moral superiority as they funnel more weapons to israel to carry out genocide.
- The left refuses to see anything close to the truth and can only acknowledge their own delusions as reality.

I think anyone who's over the age of 20 and doesn't have an unmedicated anxiety disorder can remember how many "fate of our democracy" elections we've had. Remember Bush? Obama? Trump (1)? The only thing dying regardless of who gets the white house is the two geriatric fucks fighting over it.
- Yeah that's because every single fucking Republican elected in the last 50 years has been absolutely disastrous for both America and the world. Democrats aren't much better, oftentimes they're just as bad, but every single Republican has fucked us over in some way or another.
- Yes, but also no. It has always been pumped up as the most important election ever, but this time we literally have someone in the ballot that incited an insurrection and says they will be a dictator on day one. It's like the boy who cried wolf and this time there is actually a wolf.
  
  I remember people saying that in '04 about how Bush "overthrew democracy" to win his first term. The US Govt. is capable of withstanding a rogue POTUS.
  incited an insurrection
  Donnie must be dumber than I thought because he literally told those people to go home and leave after the insurrection that he apparently started.

I did not build or consent to this governmental arrangement, and would have been excluded from voting during its formation. I am willing to take a project other people build as my own if I believe it is well intentioned. A well intentioned representative democracy minimally allows me to vote FOR someone who I think is a good person and will make good decisions on behalf of me and mine. Minimally, I refuse to be bullied into putting my own principles on the line by endorsing anyone who I believe will mistreat any sector of the world population. The vast majority of policy does not follow voter preferences anyway.
- So you're ok with Trump getting another term in office.
  You have put way too much weight on the importance of voting day as part of political action. Save your activism for the other 364 days of the year, please. It's so much more important to advocate and sway opinions then. On voting day you are faced with exactly 2 choices for president and administration by a system which you had very little control over. You have little choice but to be pragmatic then and vote for the lesser of two evils. Again, you have 364 other days to atone for what you perceive as a moral failing.
  Edit: 364? My bad. You have 1459 days to work on your actual political goals. Chill out about election day.
  
  I’m the one putting too much importance on voting day? lol
- Yeah I didn't consent to getting appendicitis either, but my choices were to either get an appendectomy or die. I sure didn't want an appendectomy, but sometimes you have to choose something that you don't like
  
  I sincerely hope you don’t think social organization and appendicitis are similarly rigid

I'm progressive leaning, living in a large California city that will absolutely go blue as well as the state. I see no point in voting for Biden other than to add to the exclamation point of the popular vote which doesn't actually matter for anything. I will vote local and state level, but I don't see the point in voting for Biden as he's not really a candidate I can get behind and my vote is irrelevant thanks to the antiquated electoral college. Change my mind?
- The electoral college does manipulate the vote, but it doesn't make votes not matter. Also if everyone in Cali had the mindest that "this state is blue, I don't have to vote to keep it that way" then Cali would become a red state or swing state. Don't just rely on others voting. And if you are already voting at the state/local level, why not also vote for a President?
- Los Angeles County here. I'm not voting for Biden either. I don't support genocides. Simple as that.

But if you say you're voting for who you actually believe in, and it's not one of the two, you're also "throwing your vote away" according to many. Anytime I see this all I see is blackmail. "Vote my way or bad things will happen".
It's not a choice, it's coercion. One side actively threatens it and the other side passively threatens it. It's all just threats if you don't fall in line.
- It’s not a choice, it’s coercion.
  Math is coercion, I guess.
  
  "Being practical" and "harm reduction" seem to also be coersion, too.
  If my heart had its way, I'd be voting Peace and Freedom Party. But it doesn't, so I'll be voting for Joe Biden. And that is that.
  
  Humour and logic, keep your comments coming! Lately it felt like Lemmy was overrun by people arguing in bad faith.
- It's not blackmail, it's reality. No one is threatening you just explaining what's going to happen.
  
  Facts are blackmail. Only pleasant fictions are allowed.
- Nobody, at least seriously, is threatening YOU to vote a specific way. The threat comes from one candidate specifically, of which our glorious 2 party system has confirmed will ONLY be one of those two. And he isn’t threatening YOU, but rather our entire way of life. So, go ahead and vote however you want. Just know the repercussions on the grand scale, and maybe be a little humble.
  
  Funny how one side can do anything they want but the other side can at best "not be that guy". Democratic impotence is intentional.
- Agreed. We survived 4 years of trump, we can do it again.
  
  And again, and again, and again, and again, and again, after project 2025
  Tell that to the women in prison for having miscarriages.
- Precisely, we go through this propagandistic scolding campaign every four years. It furthers the interests of the status quo. There are so many reasons to not vote for Biden in say, Florida, where there is absolutely no chance for him to win. And this is just one particular reason/instance among many. We should be building solidarity with leftists and attempt to pull popular political discourse to the left and far away from the corporate demogogs that keep the two parties in power. Alas, liberals punch left because that's not an easy binary thought. It is a destructive mentality.
  
  I won't be voting for Biden in my state (not Florida) because he stands no chance to win here. So why should I back a genocidal horse who will lose here anyways? Fuck Trump and fuck Biden. I will vote for Claudia De la Cruz or Cornell West here. Their voices matter and should get more air time, but corporate america controls the media and the conversation. Hence why this shame scolding propaganda sits here.

Hard pass there, votes are earned, and Biden has given us thousands of reasons why we shouldnt vote for him and none as to why. He could do a total 180 and most of us will still remember what hes allowed to happen. I expect politicians to do what’s right the first time, not change course because it might impact their chances of staying in power.
- Left eating each other as usual while Republicans with no morals keep winning.
  
  Democrats are mid right, friend. It isn't "the left eating each other," it's "Democrats lying about leftists to further demonize the left so the dnc can keep pushing further right."
  
  Democrats shouldnt be such a shitty party, they are progressive in name only. The public elected Biden, but still got Trump's policies
- eye fuckin roll

There’s a lot of nuance and discussion that is just ignored by online people regarding this discussion. I’m sick of the fighting.
- Change your horrible voting system. FPTP is the root of all this craziness
  
  and here you are ignoring nuance 😭
  no one disagrees with you. no one is in a marriage blood pact with FPTP. people are trying to abolish FPTP but it’s taking time and definitely won’t be done within seven months. the pattern of commentators like you coming into a discussion saying “just do
  <the obvious>
  ” is about as useless and meaningless as a vegan trying to brigade a barbecue subreddit, or telling a person struggling with gas payments to buy a tesla.
  
  Agreed. We're getting some traction on this but it is absolutely not possible for this year's presidential election. This is a long-term goal that should not affect your voting this year.
  
  I wish but not happening in a million years.
  Both sides love it because it means they don't actually have to make improvements to win over their base.

No.
I will never vote for Joe Biden again.
- How is Joe Biden worse then Trump? It's not about which candidate is good, it's about which candidate is the best of the two.
  
  5 steps right instead of 10 steps right is still 5 steps right. 50+ years of "lesser evil" voting is what got us here but it'll totally work this time we swear!
  
  it doesn't matter which is worse, neither will get my vote.
  
  How is genocide best of the 2? Anything Trump might do is speculation, and while liberals are speculating, Biden is funding and providing weapons at an extraordinary rate to Israel to murder Palestinians

Jews need to check their privilege.
- Every time some racist asshole like you equates Jews to Israel it further enforces the reactions you see from Israel
  
  Check your privilege

I refuse to have Biden elected again just so he can sit in his office and say, "can you believe it? We supported a genocide and killed 30 thousand and people still voted for me!" I know the other option is trump the terrible but at least your strategically setting a precedence that this type of behavior is unacceptable and will send a signal to future presidents.
- Never heard this varient. Impressive.
  Funny how this thread is blowing up with comments like what u replied to... vlad would be proud.
- No. You're not. You're completely wrong. So wrong in fact that you are clearly trolling. But even that's critically dangerous to the future of the world.
  My only conclusion is that this post is deliberately targeted rage bait that is aimed at getting trump back in office..
- It's gonna do a whole lot of good here in 4 years when our ballots look like this
  Then the DemoCRAPS will learn how to find a REAL candidate!
  
  The same fear mongering was done last time and we were fine. When Hillary said the election was lost due to russian interference no body cared. Trump goes around and plays their same game and it's the end of the world. I hate him but the fear mongering is unfounded.
- Its like giving a dog a cookie after they piss on the floor, dogs gonna think its ok to piss the floor. Their lesser evil strategy has grown so large and out of control they dont even recognize evil when it sends more bombs to Israel