you can set your watch to it
you can set your watch to it
Some people will be miserable no matter who is running
264 comments
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Can she remember what she had for breakfast? If so, she's got my vote.
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Bro y u gotta do me like that?
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We’re electing a president, not a monarch. Nobody is above criticism, and there’s a weird segment of people who act like criticism from the left exists only to help the right.
Like, I actually saw someone say we shouldn’t do it because it’s too nuanced for the average voter, and sorry but I don’t do paternalism like that. If reading criticism of how a candidate isn’t far enough left makes you vote further right, that’s a basic political literacy problem.
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I mean, we could focus on defeating the GOP and the day after the election results come in start using social pressure to guide our elected officials. If the criticism risks the GOP seizing even more power, it might be counterproductive to your goals even if the criticism is valid.
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Any good faith criticism of the Dem candidate should be obvious in its criticisms that R policies are inherently worse. For example, Harris’ record as DA is worth criticizing, but any bad decisions related to imprisoning people are going to be a million times worse under Trump, as Project 2025 shows.
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Well, last time we pushed Biden left it was called too soon after election, give them time to form a plan. Form a cabinet, figure out policies.
Then it was midterms. Questioning the policies for misterm gives Republicans a win. They have to keep these conservative polices set by the last Republican to win over Republican voters.
Then it's 2024. Questioning policies is a win for Republicans. They need to win this election, and then we can push them left.
I'm hoping it ends with a younger nominee.
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It’s a lot easier to criticize the Democratic Party if the GOP is first discarded as useless trash and gets no votes in an election. Then we can decide who among our progressive candidates actually has the best approach forward.
Yet I keep seeing this thought assumed, that a 100% blue vote would “give them too much unchecked power”. This is the difference: We have a party while the GOP has a person. A bullet 2 inches to the right would have destroyed their whole movement.
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Because when all those people do is criticize Democrats, sabotage outreach efforts, and don't put any time or effort into defeating fascists, then it is very obvious where they stand.
Like I get it - huffing farts from time to time is great. But you gotta take a break and mix some productive advocacy and outreach if you actually care about Democracy instead of just smelling farts.
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Maybe I'm super cynical, but does that really matter on Lemmy and the platforms connected to it?
Like, who's reading this comment section that's actually on the fence about going out and voting for a Harris ticket? It has to be a miniscule fraction.
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Some people think criticizing is the same thing as not supporting.
If you want things to get better, you have to honestly and critically examine your leaders, not blindly support them and pretend they are flawless. Shutting down criticism is short-sighted nonsense and will only lead to worse candidates in the future.
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Right. The problem with the current political atmosphere in America is that only one of the two parties is actually self-critical. The other is a cult of personality that can do no wrong. They set the reality from the top, and everyone below falls in line.
Only one side of the political aisle in the US will ever actually admit they were wrong about something instead of doubling down on it. Only one side will, at this point, admit defeat even.
In a Real Politik sense, this is a weakness.
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Even Fox was calling out the tone after Trump was shot. They acknowledged Trump himself has used language akin to encouraging violence on many occasions, while the worst the left has done is label him a fascist - a mostly accurate term. Yet, people had been praising those violent remarks while calling out democrats, even after discovering the shooter was a devout Republican.
There is no introspection among them.
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Exactly. Those in the highest positions of power should damn well have criticism. The argument otherwise seems to imply that accountability and transparency have no place in American politics
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It's funny how the tribalism of those demanding unwavering support of The Chief is very much a walk back from the spirit of Democracy ("they represent us") and into Monarchy ("we owe fealty to them").
The less Democratic a country is - and hence the less representative its leaders are - the worse this shit is.
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The reality of the situation is the time for that is November 6th and later (or during the primaries or the last 4 years).
For the months between the primary concluding and the general election concluding, if you support the candidate, then criticism is a distraction that undermines the goal of getting them elected.
So you are free to criticize of course, but it's a practical concern to be aware of that you are convincing others to not vote at all or vote against the candidate.
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Probably, but misogyny and racism is easier to call out than defending an old man who shouldn't be behind the wheel of a car, let alone a country.
And Trump is still too damn old, even ignoring the fact that he's a repugnant human being to boot.
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Trump's very obviously much less mentally competent than Biden. Biden rambled a couple of times. Trump rarely forms a coherent sentence at all.
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I'll say that Biden sounds less competent at a glance. Like if you watch and go through his mental process, you understand how the mistake he made happened but you know the substance of what he was trying to say.
Usually Trump says stuff that, on the surface, sounds like maybe something but if you try to think about it it makes no sense.
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I was a major biden naysayer. Id always love more but this was a huge ask that was answered. Lets kick republican ass
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If we get someone better, I'll be shocked.
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Aaaaaaand there we go. First one I've seen so far. Here's a slow golf clap for ya....
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I'm sure the Russians already have their list of alliterative agitprop ready to test on .ml before pushing the best ones to prod on Reddit and Facebook.
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I mean just reprint the copmala material from when she was announced as VP pick and you're golden.
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The positive take would be to start with the "Trump is too old for 4 more years as a President" memes.
Instead we have these "those who don't instantly bend the knee are against us" memes that, frankly, have quite the wiff of the typical Far-Right/Foreign Propaganda Op purposefully sowing division on the Left.
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🤖 posting the "Anti-Harris Memes are an Op by the Far Right" 🤝 🤖 posting "Anyone complaining about Anti-Harris memes is an Op by the Far Right"
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Good point: good old Stupidity is also a valid explanation for having a knee-jerk reaction of starting fights with those whose help you need.
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Just a reminder that Harris has a voting record to the left of all Senate Democrats.
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/kamala_harris/412678/report-card/2020
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from your own link, that’s only because she’s the least bipartisan dem in the senate.
govtrack’s “left-right ideology” ranking is flawed, it doesn’t look at the content of the bills at all. in govtrack’s own words the ideology ranking “may be measuring something else, perhaps something more closely related to partisan-ness”.
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Not compromising with fascists is a good quality to have as well.
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I don't know.
I really dislike Harris. She's probably the bottom of my pick list for the nominee and a Dem President.
But it's not like a gaping sore of a liability the way Biden was.
I'm excited the conversation can finally shift to "Trump fell asleep during his own convention? Doesn't he seem tired in his speech?"
I think it being a woman nominee is an interesting newsworthy discussion point at a time when the other party is actively working to harm women - even if she's the last of the many other qualified women I'd rather see in the position.
I don't like her, I don't like listening to her nonsensical off the cuff statements, I thought she did very poorly in the 2020 campaign, I am anxious about a law enforcement politician as President in a system with too much Presidential power over the Justice department.
But in spite of all that, I just don't care enough to push back strongly on her.
She's boring in the neoliberal way we've gotten used to, but she's not addled and she's not a neo-Nazi, and with an interesting VP pick she's a ticket I could potentially even be excited about four months from now instead of watching her be put into a nursing home as the October surprise.
I'd love to see an actual competitive open convention, but barring that I'm just going to accept a turd sandwich that's palatable, as even that seemed like a stretch a week ago, and I'll take what I can get.
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If you'd like something to be excited about consider how much psychological damage losing an election to a woman of color will do to not just trump, but Bannon and miller.
I'd love for them to feel their ideology so rejected that they give up and finish drinking themselves to death.
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If you’d like something to be excited about consider how much psychological damage losing an election to a woman of color will do to not just trump, but Bannon and miller.
Hell, there's a part of my cold, cold heart that will be warmed to know that Hillary Clinton might live to see a woman become POTUS, and that woman will not be a Clinton.
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I want to see this so bad!!
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I don't like Harris at all. She's just more status quo. We need big changes. Climate crisis is looming.
The more salient point though, is that I don't think she is the candidate to beat Trump. She just isn't very likable. She's not inspiring anyone.
We need someone with some juice to beat Trump. We need a candidate that gets people excited.
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She doesn't need to be inspiring. She just needs to not be half dead.
I think people are underestimating just how weak of a candidate Trump has become.
It just wasn't really able to be capitalized on because we were doing a whole "the emperor has clothes" thing on the left so the left media couldn't point out Trump running around naked.
He's old and tired. And there's now 4 months to show him as not only a fascist, but a half dead one that's meandering and weak.
He was only able to cosplay as a strongman when his opponent was literally presenting with Parkinson's. Against a younger person the narrative immediately becomes "old man yells at clouds" and his BS can be rebranded as 'confused.'
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I'm firmly of the opinion that no positive change will happen in time unless it's at the point of a sword.
And I'm still backing Harris. The Democratics would never permit a progressive to run, but at least this way we have a chance at 8 years before fascism wins. With Biden, we would have been lucky to get 4.
And who knows, maybe she'll pick a progressive VP to maintain the appearance of being for the working class!
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I agree. But there's not enough time to get momentum on any of the other front runners. She has the biggest name without a lot of negativity from Right propaganda (Newsom).
She's our candidate. Any kind of run off is going to waste time and probably fragment the party. I'll vote for Harris. Not as happily as I would even the old and faltering Biden that dropped out. But I'll fall in line and vote for her, and promote her to others.
Because it's our best chance.
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Who is the one to beat Donald in your opinion?
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She's a woman, and she's black, of course there will be opposition.
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It'll be interesting to see what minor controversy from her past that voters glom onto and equivocate with Trump's blatant assault on democracy.
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She argued in court in favor of California's death penalty, and she threatened to jail parents of truant kids while she was the DA in San Francisco. It's more complicated than those sound bites--like, it was her job to argue the state's position--but you'll get the sound bite opposition.
I don't like Harris since I support 2A rights in addition to things like LGBTQ+ rights, and right to choose, but I like her odds of winning more than I liked Biden's.
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She could have dodged all this criticism by running as a Republican (and then getting ignored by all the old white guys at the RNC).
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eyup. new directive is pushing the harris bad narrative now that project get joe to drop is complete.
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Sure would be nice if people realized they are being manipulated, but being we are a stubborn species, pointing it out just makes idiots dig in harder.
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And I will remain blind to them. America is about to live in the context of the Coconut Lady. (I will support whoever gets the nomination at the end of the DNC.)
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I would support a steaming pile of Biden's dogs shit over that old as fuck racist rapist with 34 felonies. VOTE
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What policies will this shit provide for the everyday American?
Its not a convicted felon and has taken 0 human rights away. Vote for the cleanest shit!
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This attitude almost got Biden nominated, which would have guaranteed a Trump presidency.
You have to force Democrats to be good enough to actually win.
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Thus far I've only seen memes over people salty about Biden making the right decision talking about rhetoric switching to Kamala. In fact I've seen several now.
It's like you want something to push back against so bad you need to make it!
Edit:
Yeah I was wrong... Jimmydoreisalefty is spamming anti Kamala memes right when Russia starts their 9-5 shifts like it's his job... Oh wait
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who is that?
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There are some users on here who have bot vision, who see everything in shades of Russian troll. When it comes to that particular user I mentioned, they are absolutely correct.
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What will the tankies use to justify not voting now?
Probably her prosecution of Marijuana possession.
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Probably throw in some ancient anti-trans stuff too
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It's like politicians aren't allowed to evolve on thier policies over time ......
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Genocide was my red line.
The guy doing genocide dropped out. Might as well vote for a roll of the dice.
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Well, the dice on Kamila's side is much more likely to be the end of it.
Trump accepted a huge donation from a woman who made him promise the annexation of Palestine. That annexation will not be good for the Palestinians.
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/miriam-adelson-trump-2024-campaign-donor-israel.html
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Almost as if the US democrats where assholes through and through (still better that the Republicans, before you accuse me of supporting Trump).
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Lol nah, just Russian bots acting like Americans. "Biden is too old, we need anybody else in order to beat Trump!", "Kamala is too black/isn't manly enough/isn't black enough/is too womanly to beat Trump!"
Or maybe they'll push the angle that "
<candidate>
was pushed down our throats by the political elite so vote third party/Trump to teach them a lesson!"
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I think she’d dance circles around Trump. I’m all for it.
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While I agree and Harris would make a good president and spin cheetolini like a top, but I still don't think the U.S. will elect a woman president yet. I think this will be the choice that gives twice impeached, convicted felon and likely pedophile drumpf his 2nd term. I've already made arrangements previous to this to get my family out of the U.S. and tomorrow we start shipping out our stuff.
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I wonder if all those rampant anti Biden astroturfers are going to create new accounts to dump on Harris, or if they'll just continue on.
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Haven't seen any Linkerbaan posts about her yet. We'll see.
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I mean, there are valid reasons to be anti-Harris, she's still a right-winger. Leftists aren't going to be happy voting for any right-winger by default.
Harris could take a firm anti-genocide stance, or promise something big and popular like Medicare for All, which would see increased voter turnout from the Left. However, given her track record, I doubt she would pivot in this direction, instead focusing on being a younger and healthier Joe Biden, essentially. That should make liberals more likely to turn out, so still a net-gain for the Dems.
It's really too early to tell.
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She campaigned for President by proudly supporting Medicare for all.
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Yes, then dropped out before the Primaries. This was during a time when there were other candidates like Bernie and Warren pushing hard for it. We will see if she takes this back up, or tries to maintain a "younger Biden" approach.
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Harris called for a ceasefire in Gaza in March. She co-sponsored Bernie's Medicare for All bill. She spent most of her VP term focusing on abortion rights. She pushed for Marijuana rescheduling, which is still ongoing. She checks all the boxes for me.
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We will have to see where she moves her campaign. America in 2024 is not America in 2020, where progressive policies were salient. Now, the bar has been lowered to "no genocide," yet genocide is still a popular DNC position, despite the wishes of the electorate.
Kamala may try to run her campaign on big hope and promises, ie progressive policies and toning down the warhawkish Biden foreign policy, but given the right-wing trajectory of the DNC she may try to focus on garnering establishment support now that she has essentially been handed the nomination.
Only time will tell.
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Now that "Genocide Joe" is out, the Lemmy-Leftists LARPing as communists have gone mask-off and are just proudly pushing accelerationism.
It was always a front.
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She is just as genocidal as Biden. We are being critical because at least for me I was gaslit into voting for Biden despite all the red flags.
I knew that Biden was anti-Arab and specifically anti-Palestinian. But liberals assured me it will be fine. Well it isn’t fine we got a genocide. Once bitten twice shy.
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Well, good thing Trump doesn't have any red flags at all right?
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Well she did sorta become the Democratic candidate so yeah
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Another reminder that not everything is black and white to the tribal folk of the USA.
You are allowed to dislike someone on the basis of their character even if they have a certain skin colour, genitalia, or age.
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Sleepy Trump
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"Genocide Kamala" doesn't quite flow as well.
j/k
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Wow, how weird it's the same 4 ppl posting them 🥱
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I’m not here to say anything negative about Harris, but she DID kick my pregnant sister in the stomach.
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I also heard she gave a middle finger to a box of kittens.
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Well...yes... American politics is driven by hate.
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I mean, right, because I'm not independently wealthy and I have to work for a living.
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What'll be even funnier is if they neg her so hard the convention goes for someone like Whitmer or Jayapal
Especially since Trump has been doing the pickme dance for Midwestern votes by going on about how the union's to blame for the jobs going to mexico and also Indian votes by trying to pander to defensiveness about Modi
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It's Harris.
The flood of articles about Harris following Joe stepping down isn't a coincidence, it's a coordinated PR maneuver to build support before the nomination becomes official.
I was always going to reluctantly vote for Biden, and I'll reluctantly vote for Harris. And you should too.
But that doesn't mean I am going to like it. Or that I'm going to shut up about valid criticism.
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Anyone know what happened to the comments on this post
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"giggles" has already come up
Like really?... That's your argument
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Black cop, black cop!
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poisoning the well
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Where? Its been hours yet ive failed to see ANY post bad mouthing kamala
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There are dozens in this thread alone my dude...
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Posts or comments? Ive generally seen more relief over joe dropping out than kamala hate...
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It's not like it's hard to be anti-Harris.
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Flood of blue MAGA boiling literally any criticism of their candidate "Russian Trump support" incoming.
I guarantee it.
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Harris is another corporate Democrat that would have to be pushed hard to pursue any kind of (direly needed) progressive reform. And there has to be a reason why in all of her years as VP we haven't heard a single noteworthy statement from her. Seems like she isn't exactly the most charismatic politician ever. That said, she is a better candidate than Biden purely on account of her relative youth and if I were American I would vote for her without a second thought. Although I would much prefer a spirited progressive like AOC.
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Question What did Harris do Like I genuinely know nothing about them besides them being bidens vp
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This is a general observation that no matter who is running as a the Democratic presidential candidate in America there will always be a concerted effort to undermine their viability and general reception.
This has been happening since John Kerry in 2004
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I know right, not only should everyone vote blue no matter who, we should also consider whoever the party apparatus decides is worthy of the office above question or criticism (sometimes chosen with the veneer of caring about the electorate, but not this time [or they would have pushed Biden to drop out much sooner so there could be meaningful primaries], and never more than a veneer [unpledged delegates mean that the party favored candidate only needs like 30% of the vote to get a majority of delegates for any given state - see 2016 Democrat primary in WV for an example of this]).
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I nominate Danica Roem. She's INCREDIBLE, highly effective, and trans, so she'll have every Republican having the vapours every day 100 times more than Obama did.
Seriously she's awesome.
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How about a primary. Democrats are supposed to be Democratic.
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You didn't vote for the Biden/Harris ticket? I certainly remember voting for them both.
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I didn't vote for either in my primary. I chose any other Democrat, like many other people.
We don't need another DA/Prosecutor or proponent of prison slavery and ignorer of Police Brutality as President. She was against the Israeli War before this, I wonder if that position will change now.
Kamala Harris lost badly in the 2020 Primary, so putting everything on her will not do well for us.
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There already was one. No one but Biden showed up.
And no Jill Stein and your buddy Cornel West are still not viable.
Are you going to flip to bitching about Harris all the time? Most of us know the real reason you're here even though you won't admit it.
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This is going to be another talking point "but DiD yOU eLecT her???" When in truth only 2% of the US population votes in the primaries
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Can't do a primary. There's no time. We only have enough time for a coronation followed by a bunch of people screaming "Vote Blue No Matter Who!"
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Found one
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I've always been fascinated with written correspondence between regular people in early 19th century Germany before the nazis took over, and how the ignorance and delusion of everyday people became the paved road that led hitler to power.
A lot of them sound exactly like yours.
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It's not a coronation. You can still vote for Trump, if you think he's the better choice.
You have to admit, Joe senility was apparent at the debate.
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Don’t ask us to vote for her and I promise not to complain :)
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Yep and they'll have "solid arguments" but zero solutions because they just want to accelerate the destruction of the US. They want people to not vote.
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Yes, some of us don't like genocide or chattel slavery which are too things she made a career out of.
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Dems have lost the election time to move on to damage control
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The election that happens in november?
That election several months away?
That election which hasn't happened yet?
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Fuck defeatism. Now is the time to rally behind whoever is up against Trump, Harris included. Throwing your hands in the air and giving up is exactly how you fuck everyone over.
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Love the optimism but god dam her foot in mouth syndrome is next level. She needs coaching, money, coaching, and support of big media. She doesnt have it.
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She's a shit candidate and has 0 chance of winning against Trump.
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This is doomerist, have y’all slept through the abortion measures being defeated in deep red states? All Harris has to do is campaign on abortion—something Biden refused to do as a Catholic—and the election is fucking won
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She's a great candidate with a 73% chance to beat Trump.
See, it's not that hard to make up stats!
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Forty-seven percent of stats listed on Lenny are completely made up.
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If you want the actual percentages, go by her own assessment:
"You know they say that all candidates are created equal, but you look at me and you look at Mar-A-Lago Don and you can see that statement is not true. See normally if you go one on one with another candidate, you got a 50/50 chance of winning. But I'm a judicial freak and I'm not normal. So he's got a 25 percent, AT BEST, of beating me. Then you add RFK Jr. to the mix, your chances of winning drastic go down. See the three-way in the General Election, you got a 33 and a third chance of winning. But ME, I've got a 66 and two thirds chance of winning, cause RFK Jr. KNOWS he can't beat me, and he's not even gonna try. So Mar-A-Lago Don, you take your 33 and a third chance minus your 25 percent chance, and you got an eight and a third chance of winning in the General Election. But then you take my 75 percent chance of winning if we's to go one on one, and then add 66 and two thirds percents, I've got a hundred and forty one and two thirds chance of winning in the General Election. See, Don, the numbers don't lie, and they spell disaster for you in the General Election.
But I'm gonna break it down for all you lemmings. Would you rather be with me, or would you rather be with Don?
Well Republicans think Don's kinda nice?
See, they're some of those chuds who like fascism. Imma talk to all my freaks out there. Would you rather live in a nation with me at the helm, a judicial freak, to be satisfied every State of the Union, or live in a country with that fatass Mar-A-Lago Don? See, in the primary we're gonna win, and I'm gonna be the next POTUS in the General Election. C'mon Petey, let's go.
Hey, Kammy, just like you always say, 'Kamala H has got your hook up?' Well, South Bend Mayor Pete is who you need to look up, holla if ya hear THAT!"
Who am I to argue with the math?
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She’s a shit candidate and has 0 chance of winning against Trump.
Zero percent eh? Which polls are you averaging to get that number?
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I think the moment she starts making speeches and getting into the public eye the tides will change. Trump is a drooling bumbling buffoon. Harris will remind people what an actual adult in their prime looks and sounds like.
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Why not?
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"Because reasons!"
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Oh you'll see. She's got no charisma. About as boring as Hillary. Harris ran for President in 2020 and didn't even make it to Iowa.
People shouldn't vote based upon stage presence. But they do. And this country still has a fuck ton of racist and sexist people.
I'm still going to vote for her. But I'd bet Trump has a much easier path to another EC win against Harris. Biden was boring but conservative enough to make it harder for Trump to win swing states.
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How many threads are you going to post this in?
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As many as I want. This entire "fediverse" is supposed to be free speech.
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264 comments